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Thread: Now in search of Henckel alternatives..

  1. #1

    Now in search of Henckel alternatives..

    I'm hovering over the buy button on a Henckel Twin Cermax 7" Santoku and a paring/utility knife (for the missus) from **************, however I'm not 100% on it yet and was hoping for some alternatives. Whilst I can read up on metal composition etc I can't find much to read on blade shapes, so was hoping for some suggestions.

    Why I like 7" Twin Cermax Santoku? It's the right length (for now..), looks more useful than a Nakiri (although I do love the looks of those) and the material sounds like a good option (Thanks to reading up more on metallurgy than I ever watned to, thanks to Penscol Tiger and zknifes). The paring/utility knife to go with it is as much for the missus and peeling as much as the free board CKTG will throw in.

    At this point I realised I'm at $300 (which seems to be lower end of the price range for imported customs) for a brand many frequent posters round here seem to hate with handles I hate on that shape blade, I thought I'd throw it open.

    - Does the Henckel-Hate extend to their full range?
    - Are there any other ZDP189 options round this price point?
    - What is the main alternative/competitor to ZDP and what's the arguement for/against?
    - If I'm go for a bottom of the range custom, is there any guarantee it'll perform better than a mass-produced blade?
    - I enjoyed zknives, are there any other resources that come recommended?

    (My first ever post here suggested CarboNext knifes, however reading up on the promotional material for their metals it might as well have said "Made by magic and sprinkled with pixie dust")

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Elcee View Post
    (My first ever post here suggested CarboNext knifes, however reading up on the promotional material for their metals it might as well have said "Made by magic and sprinkled with pixie dust")
    I'd go by recommendations and not be swayed by how sites describe steels. These guys aren't marketing gurus. IMO no point getting too much into steel research. I think its better to compare knives, not steels, especially if you're not one of the crazies on here who buys 5 gyutos a year.

  3. #3
    Well that was my problem; it sounded more like marketing blurb than a technical specification which resulted in me losing a bit of faith. There also seems to be a lack of real world testing and experience beyond the anecdotal, although thinking about it I suppose that's pretty much all you're going to get.

    I don't mean to get caught up on the metal specs but details about the material is about the only differentiator I can use. I can't say if profile A is better than profile B (or even by looking at a knife, which is A and which is B), but I can tell that a harder material will (should?) hold an edge longer.

  4. #4
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    ZDP knives: Nope. Cermax is the only one in your range. I have one that has been thinned and converted to a wa-handle. It is now a much nicer knife and I like it quite a bit.
    ZDP steel vs others: It's a nice steel. Somewhat low on the ultimate sharpness and high on the wear resistance. It is somewhat chippy. So it's great if you are gentle with your knives and don't want to sharpen.
    Cermax vs other knives: Cermax is not a particulary good performer in terms of pure cutting ability. The steel is easily the best part of owning this knife in it's stock form.
    Cermax vs CarboNEXT: Whatever the magic and pixie dust is, it is good stuff. You'll need to sharpen it more often but it takes a nice keen edge easily. I've used nearly every knife we talk about on this forum and CN is easily in the best buy category and I'd rather use it than a stock Cermax any day.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elcee View Post
    At this point I realised I'm at $300 (which seems to be lower end of the price range for imported customs) for a brand many frequent posters round here seem to hate with handles I hate on that shape blade, I thought I'd throw it open.

    - Does the Henckel-Hate extend to their full range?
    - Are there any other ZDP189 options round this price point?
    - What is the main alternative/competitor to ZDP and what's the arguement for/against?
    - If I'm go for a bottom of the range custom, is there any guarantee it'll perform better than a mass-produced blade?
    - I enjoyed zknives, are there any other resources that come recommended?

    (My first ever post here suggested CarboNext knifes, however reading up on the promotional material for their metals it might as well have said "Made by magic and sprinkled with pixie dust")
    I can't tell if you mean custom made by a maker here (designed to your specs, handle choice, one of a kind), or custom made I.E. hand made in japan (Konosuke, CarboNext, Yoshihiro).

    - Does the Henckel-Hate extend to their full range? No. The steel in the cermax is better than their normal line and the profile of the blade is more attractive, but not ideal (for me).
    - Are there any other ZDP189 options round this price point? Not that I know of, maybe someone else can come up with one.
    - What is the main alternative/competitor to ZDP and what's the arguement for/against? ZDP doesn't have many alternatives. Cowry-X (Hattori KD line) of course, but that will cost you more than you want to spend and will be very hard to find.
    - If I'm go for a bottom of the range custom, is there any guarantee it'll perform better than a mass-produced blade? If you are talking about a maker here or a hand made blade in Japan the answer is the same, no. There is no guarantee at all that the knife will perform any better than the Twin Cermax. I will say if you get a knife from a maker here you won't be disappointed, and a blade from Japan has more potential than the cermax.

    I'd also recommend getting a gyuto (210mm or 240mm).

    EDIT: I'd go with the carbonext also.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowtyper View Post
    one of the crazies on here who buys 5 gyutos a year.
    Only 5, I thought that was sane for here.

    Would you rather pay for marketing or knife performance?

  7. #7
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    If u are set on a santoku, here is a pretty nice one for a reasonable price, it is a Birchwood Miyabi
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miyabi-Birch...item2a1a61c595

  8. #8
    $300 budget is not really that low. Should be lots of options

  9. #9
    Senior Member stevenStefano's Avatar
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    I'd get a Carbonext like everyone else says. If not that, if you are looking for a Twin Cermax have you tried this one at Eden Werbshops? Might be a bit cheaper than having to get it from tje US

  10. #10
    I'm also considering picking up a carbonext as well, more to be used as a line knife. Thinking a 210 gyuto, 240 suji, or maybe even trying out a santoku...never really been interested in them before but might be worth a shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by GlassEye View Post
    Only 5, I thought that was sane for here.
    Yes same for here, crazy for normal people!

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