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Refurbishing Masamoto KS - Observations
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Thread: Refurbishing Masamoto KS - Observations

  1. #1
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
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    Refurbishing Masamoto KS - Observations

    This is the first time I saw a Masamoto KS gyuto (and petty) up close.

    Initial impression - not bad a knife.

    After a detailed look, some of my observations. The knife is 3mm over the heel, slightly over 2mm half way and about 1.65mm 2" from the tip. Thin and nimble.

    What was a little surprising is that it is flat ground with about .016+ on the edge before the bevels are set in.

    Profile on both a gyuto and a petty had some issues (minor on a gyuto more serious on a petty) and required correction (reprofiling).

    Obviously, .016+" on the edge is far from optimum thickness and had to be addressed. Luckily, the edge on KS was thick enough to convert to a light convex edge, which I did, in process thinning the edge to under .005".

    Refinishing required a progression of automotive sandpaper to remove factory scratches, and to refine new finish. In all, I used 5 different grits of paper, stopping at 800grit.

    Sharpening was relatively easy, thought I don't think I got it any sharper than my 52100 and somehow it felt that the steel didn't responded well to stropping on 1 micron diamond felt strop. I don't have other knifes in White steel to compare to, so maybe I am mistaken.

    What was meant to be a quick refinishing project, turned into a full refurbishing
    reprofiling, convexing/thinning, refinishing, and sharpening. It was fun and I have learned a few things along the way. This knife has potential, but one needs to put some work into it.

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    El Pescador's Avatar
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    You do good work Marko.

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    Sounds like a fun! And a lot of work!

    I noticed the exact same thing about stropping the KS on diamond. It did much better on Chromium Oxide.

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    Senior Member Salty dog's Avatar
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    You got a fat one.

    So how sharp does 52100 get?

    And for the honyaki nay sayers, the KS doesn't get as sharp or stay as sharp.

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    Senior Member Johnny.B.Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty dog View Post
    You got a fat one.
    Actually, I got a fat one. And if I had to point a finger at the one person most responsible for convincing me to go with the KS over other options, it would be you Salty!

    I was not particularly impressed with the fit and finish and/or out of the box sharpness on either of these knives when they arrived, but I do love their profiles. One thing is for sure however, and that is that I would never have called them "fat." I thought they were light as a feather when I first picked them up. Clearly I still have a lot to learn and experience.

    Thanks for all of your hard work on them Marko. I can't wait to see them in person again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny.B.Good View Post
    Actually, I got a fat one. And if I had to point a finger at the one person most responsible for convincing me to go with the KS over other options, it would be you Salty!

    I was not particularly impressed with the fit and finish and/or out of the box sharpness on either of these knives when they arrived, but I do love their profiles. One thing is for sure however, and that is that I would never have called them "fat." I thought they were light as a feather when I first picked them up. Clearly I still have a lot to learn and experience.

    Thanks for all of your hard work on them Marko. I can't wait to see them in person again.
    Yeah. Just remember to put a disclaimer every time you get the urge to gush over your new "Masamotos," lol. They are not Marko's take on what a KS should be.

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    I have owned one of these babies for quite a while and I have to say that even though they aren't super thin theres something about the way they cut that is not common. I have had the same thing happen with another knife that is pretty thick a honyaki Ittosai Kotetsu 300mm gyuto, nowhere near the laser geometry but cut like no ones biz. Maybe theres something more than just plain geometry and grind at play.

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    Senior Member Johnny.B.Good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tk59 View Post
    Yeah. Just remember to put a disclaimer every time you get the urge to gush over your new "Masamotos," lol. They are not Marko's take on what a KS should be.
    I will just link to this thread.

    Done and done.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    And if you compare the Masamoto KS and knives Marko
    If we reject the fit and finish, as well as holding/keeping the edge.
    Me interested in cut quality and ease/usability of use.
    Who will win?
    I just choose one of two.

  10. #10
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
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    Masamoto are flat ground (but still V shaped), so their mid section (halfway between edge and spine) is relatively thin, which will make Masamoto a pretty solid performer even with a slightly thicker edge.

    I was taught not to leave much metal on the edge (thickness-wise), so .016" thickness on Masamoto edge worked pretty well for giving the knife some convex (from about 1/2" above the edge) while thinning it. On my knives I form convex much higher than that, probably 2/3 of the height of the blade, so the mid section on my knives is slightly thicker, and a knife is a little bit heavier.

    I am not an expert on White steel and sharpness. Most of the assessment of my knives comes from people who use them (pros and home cooks) and it seems that 52100 can be sharpened to a very fine edge, but one would have to use diamond spray over felt or leather strop as it has alloys that help with edge holding, but also make it a little more difficult to sharpen. For a 'factory' edge I use Bester 1200, 2 micron felt strop, then Rika 5K, 1 micron felt strop and get it sharp to glide through printer paper - that is as far as I take it. I only do a few passes on the stones while sharpening, no need for more on that thin an edge. For my personal use, I use 1200 diamond plate followed by a JNat. I get a very aggressive edge that lasts for a long time.

    From what I have read, White doesn't have many alloys, so sharpening it would be easier, but it won't hold edge for long. I haven't experimented with it myself, so I am just repeating what I have read. Most folks who own KS seem to be happy with heat treatment, i. e. hardness, edge retention, or so it seems.

    @Salty - I have another KS on hand, so I will measure the edge on it too, but from just looking at how bevels are cut, I can tell you it could be thinner. A good start is to look at the tip.

    You can try for yourself how sharp 52100 gets once you let me know your choice of handle material.

    M


    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a narrow field.
    -Niels Bohr

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

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