I know we have a few gun enthusiasts on here, as knives and guns go hand in hand. I also know Kimbers are prestigious for many, what is your take on them? I've been drooling over a couple for awhile, and in a few months may pull the trigger. I am definetely a .45 guy, and I already have a Springfield Arms XDM .45 ACP. I heard the mags suck in Kimbers and they only give you one, so add two extra quality mags to the price. Other than that, the word is they are very solid/well made, shoot beautifully, and feel just right in the hand. What say you?
Kimber 1911's
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BTW I was looking at the Crimson Carry II or the Raptor II.
stereo.pete
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I am strictly a Springfield Armory 1911 guy because their customer service is absolutely the best and their custom shop is damn near perfect as well. I have a Springfield Armory 1911 TRP that is an absolute tack driver.
I suppose just about every factory made gun uses MIM parts, but I've heard SA uses a lot. Much is made in house at Kimber. Don't get me wrong, SA is the s***, my XDM feels so right.
So why 1911? It's rich military history (I'm also considering a Colt, yes I know they were the first). This is why I own a submariner too. Well it's the quintisential divers watch too.
So why 1911? It's rich military history (I'm also considering a Colt, yes I know they were the first). This is why I own a submariner too. Well it's the quintisential divers watch too.
Salty, I thought you stopped buying knives to purchase guns? QC issue?
Understandable, before we hit the PM route, what do you have there?
First the shotgun thread driving me crazy and now a 1911 thread....damn you Jason!
Sorry Dave, don't ban me!
I like these topics too much - that's the only problem here for me. :spin chair:
Hey Dave, what are the general rules for guns in PA? It's been so long since i've lived there, and if I get stationed overseas next I might have to store my guns there.
Open Carry is OK (except in Philly)
CCW - PA is a "Shall Issue" state
No registration required but even private handgun sales have to go through an instant check system...which I believe is a database of sales made (or in other words - a database of who is selling and buying handguns in PA).
I don't know much else about PA gun law but I should read up on this stuff more as I intend to make some purchases as soon as I can. Yeah for me it's been put off for far too long and besides I miss shooting.
I will post up some pics when I get home. I am a 1911 Junky!!!! I built my own Caspian Recon full size with the help of a local gunsmith (JoJo's in CT) and have a VBOB from Dan Wesson. I had a CBOB, but my mom bought it because she liked it better than her Les Baer Commanche. Looking at selling a M&P Full Size and Compact, both in .40 and a Glock 19 (9mm) to fund a DW CCO purchase now. A properly built 1911 won't really jam up on you. Read Sweeneys books on the 1911 and the testing he has done with them in mud and stuff. I love the Dan Wesson 1911's!!!
I had a Kimber, shot some Colts, shot a Para Ord, shot my friends $3-4K race guns (Bianchi Cup guns). Springfield Loaded on up are decent for the money. Dan Wesson is a but more expensive, but much nicer. Better quality parts, tighter fit, smoother operating, etc. I wouldn't buy another Kimber; they are too sloppy for my tastes! Shoot a loose 1911 (Kimber, some colts, lower end Springfields, etc) and a tight one, like a Les Baer or Dan Wesson and you will feel the difference.
I had a Kimber, shot some Colts, shot a Para Ord, shot my friends $3-4K race guns (Bianchi Cup guns). Springfield Loaded on up are decent for the money. Dan Wesson is a but more expensive, but much nicer. Better quality parts, tighter fit, smoother operating, etc. I wouldn't buy another Kimber; they are too sloppy for my tastes! Shoot a loose 1911 (Kimber, some colts, lower end Springfields, etc) and a tight one, like a Les Baer or Dan Wesson and you will feel the difference.
Salty dog
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I've heard good things about Dan Wesson. The things about Kimbers IMO is: They are gorgeous, nice triggers, fit and finish is perfect and they are extremely accurate.
They do demand that you keep them clean and they tend to like some ammo more than others.
They do demand that you keep them clean and they tend to like some ammo more than others.
Fit and Finish on the DW's is way above Kimbers as are their triggers. Most of the DW's have all tool steel parts, including forged frames and slides. They are solid, quality guns. Tight, lapped in, but very smooth. Their finishes are either steel or black coating. They don't used the painted on coatings which hide a lot of blems and take up the slop. I had a Kimber Pro Shadow years ago. Accurate, reliable, but something was off with it, just didn't feel right. It was a mass produced pistol where the tolerances are such that the parts drop in w/o much hand fitting. Once I shot a DW and Les Baer, I knew what I was missing. It's the precision of the gun. I'm trying to think of an analogy to the different grades of Japanese Kitchen Knives, but I'm kinda getting stuck 
The custom makers like Les Baer, Wilson, NightHawk, Ed Brown, etc are the top end. The DW's are the higher level of the factory gun along with the higher end Springfields. Kimber, Colt, Taurus, lower end SA's, Ruger, Remington, Rock Island all make decent/good 1911's, but they aren't at the top of their game normally. Maybe think the Tojiro DP series vs. a Konosuke vs a Custom knife made for you by the Smith. They all get the job done, but there are different levels of quality. Maybe the Kimber's are a bit above the DP's, but to give an idea.
Some pics
10 yds out with a modded/tuned SA WW2 GI Repro:
CBOB (also belongs to my mom now):
I don't see many Kimbers this tight!!!
CBOB's new grips:
My mom's :bigeek: Les Baer:
Lone Rider Grips on 4 1911's:
VBOB and CBOB:
And my baby! Caspian Recon Full Size, I just need to get it sent out for the Hard Hat finish to be done to it; it's similar to Glock's Tennifer:
I did most of the work on the Recon. My local gunsmith did the trigger fitting, fit the safeties, checked my barrel fit (Kart EZ Fit), cut the feed ramp, etc. That way internally it's all spot on done by a professional, but all of the frame/slide/barrel fitting (except their massaging it in to full lock up), fitting the beavertail, etc are all done by me.
The custom makers like Les Baer, Wilson, NightHawk, Ed Brown, etc are the top end. The DW's are the higher level of the factory gun along with the higher end Springfields. Kimber, Colt, Taurus, lower end SA's, Ruger, Remington, Rock Island all make decent/good 1911's, but they aren't at the top of their game normally. Maybe think the Tojiro DP series vs. a Konosuke vs a Custom knife made for you by the Smith. They all get the job done, but there are different levels of quality. Maybe the Kimber's are a bit above the DP's, but to give an idea. Some pics
10 yds out with a modded/tuned SA WW2 GI Repro:
CBOB (also belongs to my mom now):
I don't see many Kimbers this tight!!!
CBOB's new grips:
My mom's :bigeek: Les Baer:
Lone Rider Grips on 4 1911's:
VBOB and CBOB:
And my baby! Caspian Recon Full Size, I just need to get it sent out for the Hard Hat finish to be done to it; it's similar to Glock's Tennifer:
I did most of the work on the Recon. My local gunsmith did the trigger fitting, fit the safeties, checked my barrel fit (Kart EZ Fit), cut the feed ramp, etc. That way internally it's all spot on done by a professional, but all of the frame/slide/barrel fitting (except their massaging it in to full lock up), fitting the beavertail, etc are all done by me.
stereo.pete
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Springfield Armory TRP has no MIM parts if I remember correctly, all of the budget 1911's will use those parts since from a business standpoint it just makes sense. I've heard nothing but great things about Dan Wesson, I will have to take pictures of my custom 1911 frame w/ match grade .22!
From a self-defense standpoint, 9mm's scare me since the chances of them penetrating the target and going through walls and injuring/killing others is too high. Also, stopping power in a 9mm is weak compared to a .45 and of course with an all metal gun, pistol whipping is much more effective :razz: . Long story short, I hope I never am in a situation where the use of a firearm is needed (life or death) but if it does happen I would prefer my TRP at my side.
From a self-defense standpoint, 9mm's scare me since the chances of them penetrating the target and going through walls and injuring/killing others is too high. Also, stopping power in a 9mm is weak compared to a .45 and of course with an all metal gun, pistol whipping is much more effective :razz: . Long story short, I hope I never am in a situation where the use of a firearm is needed (life or death) but if it does happen I would prefer my TRP at my side.
stereo.pete
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P.S. If this will be your first and money is no option (I wish), go with a http://www.heirloomprecision.com/ . Ted Yost owns that company and he is regarded as one of the legendary gunsmiths, whose work is very classy and perfect in every way. I would compare Ted's work to that of Shigefusa.
Chifunda
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I've owned four Kimbers, including one customized for me by Richard Heinie. My short answer: the only 1911s I actually carry are a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special that has been fully tuned and a Nighthawk Vickers Tactical.
As to magazines, I like Chip McCormick Power Mags and the seven round Wilson Combats.
IMHO, anyone considering carrying a 1911 should reflect on this from Larry Vickers addressing the question "How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?"
"That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesnt mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then dont get a 1911 use a Glock."
Larry spent twenty years in Army Special Operations, fifteen of them as an assaulter in 1st SFOD - Delta and was a combat marksmanship instructor for Delta Force. Had he not chosen the military as a career, he could have enjoyed great sucess as a standup comic.
As to magazines, I like Chip McCormick Power Mags and the seven round Wilson Combats.
IMHO, anyone considering carrying a 1911 should reflect on this from Larry Vickers addressing the question "How do I know if a 1911 is the right choice for me?"
"That is a tough question as I feel most people are best served NOT using a 1911 as a primary sidearm. Two criteria come to mind a) A passion for the 1911 platform and b) you are willing to be your own armorer and can fix relatively minor problems or fit certain parts yourself. If you are the kind of guy that doesnt mind tinkering with your Harley Davidson motorcycle to keep it running then you are a candidate. If however you treat your pistols like we all treat our lawnmowers then dont get a 1911 use a Glock."
Larry spent twenty years in Army Special Operations, fifteen of them as an assaulter in 1st SFOD - Delta and was a combat marksmanship instructor for Delta Force. Had he not chosen the military as a career, he could have enjoyed great sucess as a standup comic.
Chifunda
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Yeah, Yost's stuff is just awesome!! Super clean, I just don't know how else to describe it!
As far as the 9mm, 124+p Speer Gold Dots have a very good track record; I don't mind carrying a 9 or 40 as long as the ammo has a good history of performing. Most defensive carry rounds penetrate around the same distance within a couple inches; there is a difference in expanded diameter, but in most cases, shot placement, not caliber, was the determining factor in how the bullet worked. A hit in the arm with a 45 won't do as much damage as a center mass hit with a 9mm. If you can get good hit quickly with the 45, go for it! Summer carry is a Glock 26 with the 124 +p Gold Dots. Winter carry is the VBOB with 230gr Gold Dots.
The Springfield TRP is a good line of pistols. When I was asking my gunsmith about 1911's, they said the DW and SA TRP were the best bang for the buck for around $1500 and they couldn't do up something that nice for the same price. The Kimbers have more MIM to save cost. MIM isn't as much of an issue as people make it out to be, but if you are concerned about it, you will spend a good bit of money on non MIM parts/installation. Casual shooters may never have an issue, but serious shooters may break some MIM parts. My issue with MIM is that the tolerances are loose enough to fit the majority of their guns w/o fitting, so there is slop somewhere in the pistol. I'd rather have parts that are correctly fit to that gun rather than a "close enough" fit, which most of the 1911 manufacturers do. The Glock works well with this approach because it has been designed around it. I have a buddy who knows a guy who dumped over $3500 into a Kimber to get it working right. I hope that is exaggerated a bit because that is just plain dumb. For that much, you could have gotten a much higher quality firearm! Also, I prefer a series 70 to a series 80/********/FPS lever stuff. The TRP IIRC and the DW's are Series 70, no firing pin safety.
As far as the 9mm, 124+p Speer Gold Dots have a very good track record; I don't mind carrying a 9 or 40 as long as the ammo has a good history of performing. Most defensive carry rounds penetrate around the same distance within a couple inches; there is a difference in expanded diameter, but in most cases, shot placement, not caliber, was the determining factor in how the bullet worked. A hit in the arm with a 45 won't do as much damage as a center mass hit with a 9mm. If you can get good hit quickly with the 45, go for it! Summer carry is a Glock 26 with the 124 +p Gold Dots. Winter carry is the VBOB with 230gr Gold Dots.
The Springfield TRP is a good line of pistols. When I was asking my gunsmith about 1911's, they said the DW and SA TRP were the best bang for the buck for around $1500 and they couldn't do up something that nice for the same price. The Kimbers have more MIM to save cost. MIM isn't as much of an issue as people make it out to be, but if you are concerned about it, you will spend a good bit of money on non MIM parts/installation. Casual shooters may never have an issue, but serious shooters may break some MIM parts. My issue with MIM is that the tolerances are loose enough to fit the majority of their guns w/o fitting, so there is slop somewhere in the pistol. I'd rather have parts that are correctly fit to that gun rather than a "close enough" fit, which most of the 1911 manufacturers do. The Glock works well with this approach because it has been designed around it. I have a buddy who knows a guy who dumped over $3500 into a Kimber to get it working right. I hope that is exaggerated a bit because that is just plain dumb. For that much, you could have gotten a much higher quality firearm! Also, I prefer a series 70 to a series 80/********/FPS lever stuff. The TRP IIRC and the DW's are Series 70, no firing pin safety.
Chifunda
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My shorts and a tee shirt carry is a S&W 642-1 Airweight with a Crimson Trace laser sight and a sharkskin pocket holster by the late, great Lou Alessi.
And yeah, could someone please explain to me why the 1911 needs ANOTHER safety? :scratchhead:
And yeah, could someone please explain to me why the 1911 needs ANOTHER safety? :scratchhead:
Michael Rader
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Love my Kimber SIS and it has never jammed on the variety of ammo I've run through it. My stock mag is good, but Wilson combat mags are worth every penny. I like it more than my XD tactical as it sits lower in the hand and is more instinctive to shoot accurately while shooting fast. Funny thing is +P ammo sometimes makes the slide stick open, so I'd suggest running regular loads. Love the multiple safety features for "hot" carry in town.
Thanks for this - I was kinda missing the infamous shotgun thread
~M
Thanks for this - I was kinda missing the infamous shotgun thread
~M
Chifunda
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Missed this the first time through...yep, I'm a Rolex Submariner guy too. Bought mine in Anchorage, Alaska, in 1966. Cost me $210 full pop retail! (I still have the cancelled check.) :bigeek:
Interesting take on Kimbers here, I really appreciate everyones opinion. Funny thing is, I also read lots of gun forums, especially on Kimbers lately. I knew going in they were the love it or hate it gun, and seems to be proven here. The gun community seems to be really brand loyal, even more so than here. I would love a Les Baer or Wilson Combat, just not ready to take that leap yet. Everyone that I personally know with a Kimber loves theirs, no issues. I also considered a Dan Wesson, but read just as much positive/negative responses on the gun forums as well. Gun users/collectors are an interesting bunch, I love reading the passionate threads.
Sweet!! I would love to see a pic, I love vintage watches.
Duckfat
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Is that a little riff on don't taze me bro? :justkidding:
The Kimber Ultra Carry II I had from the cusatom shop was one of the sweetest and most accurate I've had. I'm still kickin myself for selling it. While I'm also in the Sub-Mariner camp I paid a titch more for mine in the mid 90's. Compared to todays prices my receipt still looks like a bargain.
Dave
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+1
I don't get much chance to see neat watches anymore. My old job used to have my bumping elbows with really wealthy Taiwanese folks. Those guys have expensive watches.
Chifunda
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I'll take some snaps of the watch tomorrow when we have some daylight.
Anyone else having trouble posting pictures with Picasa? I tried today and got a really goofy URL for the photo and an "invalid" error message when I tried to post it on the site. :dontknow:
Anyone else having trouble posting pictures with Picasa? I tried today and got a really goofy URL for the photo and an "invalid" error message when I tried to post it on the site. :dontknow:
