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papazaza

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hey guys i know theirs a million and one kinds of steel out there I'm looking to see what's the best kind of carbon i know white # 1 and 2 an blue #1 and 2 are up their

please be gentle with explanation because I'm still learning and don't know that much yet
 
"The best" for what? Rust resistance? Edge retention? Sharpness? All-arounder? Every steel has its own attributes. Every person has their own preferences. I like aogami super because it gets sharp and retains it quite well...
 
edge retention and sharpness i work in a catering hall and go thru 10 cases of vegetables on a Tuesday easy so im looking for something that can keep up
 
A lot will depend on the heat treat, and the only way to really know how the HT came out is to test the knife's performance after it's finished. Aogami super is widely available in Japanese commercial knives as well as some very expensive honyaki pieces or custom orders from specific makers, whereas 52100 you would have to likely order a custom from an American maker. So in some ways it comes down to your budget, and whether you are looking for a Japanese style or western style knife. If you're talking custom US maker, there's also a ton of other potential steel choices like M4, 3V etc
 
For my money, I love the way White #2 sharpens and takes a patina, and the way AS holds an edge. Haven't used 52100 though, which by all accounts is pretty spiffy.
 
You can get a 52100 from Mark. Ultimatum Carbon Gyuto 245mm is 200 USD. But then again Im not sure about the quality on that knife.
Marko will make you a 52100 with superior quality for around 500 USD.

Japanese knives often uses blue or white steel, gets insane sharp, but edge retention is not that impressive. Needs babying :)
 
The best steel is Interstitial Free. Don't buy a knife made of anything else.
 
Today I learned something new!


interstitial-free steel [‚int·ər′stish·əl ′frē ′stēl]
(metallurgy)
An aluminum-killed steel with an extra-low carbon content, nominally 0.005%, in which the residual carbon is combined with niobium (columbium), titanium, or some similar element with a strong affinity for carbon.


I still haven't a clue about it. I read about micro cracking in AISI 52100 Steel, but I felt like this reading about it:
http://www.thefinancialblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/monkey-computer.jpg

Larrin is perhaps nr1 when talking about steel types. I just trust his words, without ever understanding them.
 
Unobtanium


BTW, that's the name of my new knife line coming out in the Fall of 2019
 
I think what Larrin wants to say is that the "best steel" question is like the best car, band, neighborhood, cereal, lollipop questions. Your best bet is to check out something like Devin's steel thread and get a steel that is best suited for the types of characteristics you are looking for. There will always be trade-offs. First, you need to decide if you like stain resistance. Then you need to decide whether you want ultimate sharpness. Then, wear resistance. Then you need to look at toughness. A poor understanding of how these qualities play out in the kitchen is why we have chipped debas, lol. Lower skill means toughness and edge stability is most important. That means lower carbon content and softer blades: AEB-L, white 2, etc. If you are a barbeque guy, maybe you want wear resistance and you go for DT-swr. If you are a sushi master, maybe you want ultimate sharpness and some wear resistance and hardness at the cost of toughness so you go for white 1 at 63+ hrc, etc., etc.
 
I guess when you say carbon steels you are looking at non stainless steels, is that right? Most people want a steel that can get rather hard and has fine grain to make for ease of sharpening, very sharp edge and edge holding abilities. Steels like 1084, 1095, W1, W2, 52100 and 01 are popular for kitchen knives and readily available in the US. White, Blue and Aogami Super are Hitachi steels and very difficult to get in the US unless already made into a knife.

There is a lot of info on these steels on the net. For stainless you would want something like AEB-L, 13c26, or a PM technology steel.

David
 
Interstitials are atoms that sit in the interstitial sites in an atomic lattice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstitial_defect Intersitial sites are basically the gaps between the atoms. The most common interstitials in steel are carbon and nitrogen. Interstitial free steels are super low carbon along with an addition of something like niobium or titanium to form Nb(C,N) or Ti(C,N) to get rid of the rest of it.
 
papazaza said:
edge retention and sharpness i work in a catering hall and go thru 10 cases of vegetables on a Tuesday easy so im looking for something that can keep up
Click to expand...

Steel comes down to so much personal preference, and many previsou posts above state that. Steel is also only one aspect of what makes a knife,a nd for most of use it's farther down the priority list - there are other factors that have to be "right" even before steel comes into play.

Personally, I really like AS as it gets sharp easily and has good retentnion, but if it's really hard like 64-65, and with low bevel angles, it can be chippy. But I can't stand an AS knife clad w/ crappy iron cladding that rusts and reats easily w/ food (read: Moritaka, and much as I love 'em), and there aren't many options for a SS clad AS knife. PM steels also have good retention and get sharp, not as sharp as white, and require a bit more work and skill to get sharp.

Perhaps a better question for you to ask is what knife is best for me, given my preferences, budget and the tasks I intend to put it through? mpp
 
Oh I forgot to say that IF steels would be terrible for knives.
 
What? Just because they don't have carbon???
 
Yeah, Papazaza, at least give us a knife type so we have something to argue about.
 
Two questions...which I hope aren't ridiculously ignorant:

I have aogami super in a Takeda - I'm very fond of it and it does have great edge retention. I've seen AS as the core for a damascus clad knife, and of course Kurouchi style like my Takeda. Is there such a thing as a honyaki AS knife without the Kurouchi finish?

Secondly, what are people's opinions about ZDP-189?

Thanks
 
Give us a knife type. Like "best steel for a chef's knife in a pro kitchen" or "best steel for a home butcher" or "best steel for a fishing boat" or "best steel for a yanagiba in an American sushi bar".
 
Namaxy said:
...Is there such a thing as a honyaki AS knife without the Kurouchi finish?

Secondly, what are people's opinions about ZDP-189?...
Click to expand...

On the first one, I don't see why not but I haven't seen one, myself. ZDP-189 is a nice steel but it is prone to chipping and many claim that it loses it's initial keeness more quickly than most other steels. I like it. RRLOVER has a nice blade he put up for sale a while back. Kinda pricey but it's a nice knife.
 
ok im looking for the best steel for a wa gyuto in a pro kitchen
 
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