For non-knife nuts, why carbon?

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Don Nguyen

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I know we all love carbon blades here, patinas, etc.

I've thought about this a lot; if someone came up to me and asked what the advantages of a carbon knife were, I'm not sure how to answer. From what I know, there are stainless steels out there that can take a keen edge like a carbon steel will. Stainless theoretically needs less maintenance to worry about. No need to consider reactivity. Aaand for those who can't appreciate the patina, well, there isn't one.

Is it cost?
Ease of sharpening?
Durability of edge?

Thanks for schooling me :)

-Don
 
IMO, carbon steel is better when price is a factor. Yes, there are stainless steels that are just as good, but they are not as readily accessible, the cost more, they are harder to work with, harder to laminate, etc etc.

I think the Low-end world of knives still needs carbon. Middle to High-end knives, though...stainless has finally caught up. It's an aesthetic choice for me.
 
For me its ease of sharpening and sense of tradition. I usually don't have time to work a knife from 700grit to 10000 grit and marvel at its prettiness. I need the knife to get very sharp, very quickly and retain that.

On the tradition side, I feel that knives forged with carbon steel are carrying on something passed down and I enjoy being a part in that blacksmith/user chain. I know many non-carbon knives are forged well and with great care but its not the same for me. Perhaps thats irrational or unjustified but eh.
 
I don't recommend carbon to non knife nuts. Perhaps something clad, but non nuts don't constantly think about the tools in their hands. "I cut this box of lemons and now my new knife is dull and rusty.".

What most knuts consider absolute minimal care is way over the top for the average person. After all - its just a knife.

Ease of sharpening is handy, but most people, even pros, don't sharpen.
 
In my limited experiences... Carbon fine distributed grain + tiny (0.2-0.4u) carbide cut & feel silky, also easier to sharpen. Stainless alloy carbide mostly bigger than 1u, so cutting doesn't give that carbon silky feel. M390 is close to get that 'feel' - ******** Ultimatum m390 where are you?

High density + hard carbide stainless can be challenging for avg mortal to sharpen. But, it sure holds the edge longer than carbon. Carbon patina looks nice but rust + acid dulling + lazy/abuse shy me from owning more carbon (including san-mai).
 
There is also the fact that recommending a beginners j-knife like a tojiro or a Fujiwara fkm is going to be light years ahead of what they are currently using.
 
Give me a PM anytime. But carbon still gets some love.
 
For those who prefer carbon, do you still keep a stainless around incase you need to cut a lot of acidic food?
 
For those who prefer carbon, do you still keep a stainless around incase you need to cut a lot of acidic food?

I imagine that question was geared towards a professional but as a home cook I never shy away from using my carbon knives. I love to sharpen so if my blade happens to get dulled from too much acidity I will gladly take the blade to the stones. This is especially true now that I have stepped up in the world of whet stones with my new Gesshin line up. Not to mention as stated above, there's something cool and old school about a knife with a heavy patina.

Back to the original question, I am in the same boat as Dusty when it comes to never recommending carbon to a non-knife nut. For my best friend's wedding I bought him a set of Misono 440 stainless knives (Gyuto, Santoku and petty). He and his wife love to cook but they absolutely suck at taking care of knives. A year later, they've lost the petty, chipped the tip of the santoku and are afraid to use the gyuto because it is "too big" (210mm :pullhair: ). I will sharpen their Misono's usually once every quarter and am still amazed at just how easy it is too form a burr on that particular steel.
 
I imagine that question was geared towards a professional but as a home cook I never shy away from using my carbon knives. I love to sharpen so if my blade happens to get dulled from too much acidity I will gladly take the blade to the stones. This is especially true now that I have stepped up in the world of whet stones with my new Gesshin line up. Not to mention as stated above, there's something cool and old school about a knife with a heavy patina.

I'm a home cook too and I prefer the carbon knife I have over my stainless. I like sharpening as well and the extra care so far hasn't been a big deal for me. I'm thinking of trading out my Gyuto which is stainless for a carbon one, but I wouldn't have a stainless knife, (other than my Henkels, but I don't use them any longer), and didn't know if an all carbon lineup would be unwise.
 
No carbon for non-knuts. They don't care about the "ease of sharpenability," (which, as mentioned, has diminishing returns as you approach the higher levels of stainless anyways), and more often than not they develop beautiful patterns of rust instead of patina. I gave a CCK cleaver to a friend and instructed him to wipe it and dry it after use. He's an excellent cook and can make an edge on oilstones ("45 degrees each side," he tells me, "nothing better than a tri-stone!"), but the first time I went to his house after gifting, that poor knife was rusty in the sink.

No carbon for non-knuts.

For those who prefer carbon, do you still keep a stainless around incase you need to cut a lot of acidic food?
I do. Didn't used to. I do a batch of salsa fresca a day, sometimes as big as 5 gallons, and got pretty tired of having my knife go dull halfway through my shift.
 
I'm a home cook too and I prefer the carbon knife I have over my stainless. I like sharpening as well and the extra care so far hasn't been a big deal for me. I'm thinking of trading out my Gyuto which is stainless for a carbon one, but I wouldn't have a stainless knife, (other than my Henkels, but I don't use them any longer), and didn't know if an all carbon lineup would be unwise.

I have a few stainless but only because they are truly exceptional knives (Devin Thomas ITK) but to be honest I could very easily survive and survive well with a carbon only line-up.
 
The only reason to go with carbon is......Because You Want To!! There is no real advantage of carbon in cutting or ease of sharpening vs. some of the high end SS.
 
The only reason to go with carbon is......Because You Want To!! There is no real advantage of carbon in cutting or ease of sharpening vs. some of the high end SS.

+1 I found this out first hand when my friend's Misono 440 Stainless was easier to sharpen than my Fujiwara FKH.
 
With Carbon, can you get a better cutting and performing knife for cheaper? To say it another way, do you get more bang for the buck at lower price points?
 
With Carbon, can you get a better cutting and performing knife for cheaper? To say it another way, do you get more bang for the buck at lower price points?

I would say that you can definitely get a better knife for less money when it comes to carbon.
 
I do think that your average non-stainless steel is easier to sharpen than your average stainless. Even most higher end stainless takes some work to remove the burr esp on coarser stones. For someone that does sharpen and takes decent care of knives, carbon is still a good option. I know a number of old chinese ladies that use their carbon cleavers. They look like **** but they get sharp in a pinch on the back of a ceramic mug.
 
I do think that your average non-stainless steel is easier to sharpen than your average stainless. Even most higher end stainless takes some work to remove the burr esp on coarser stones. For someone that does sharpen and takes decent care of knives, carbon is still a good option. I know a number of old chinese ladies that use their carbon cleavers. They look like **** but they get sharp in a pinch on the back of a ceramic mug.

What is the brand and grit of their ceramic mugs?
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:justkidding:
 
In Japan do professional cooks use more carbon knives compared to the states?
 
Thanks for the discussion everyone!

Lots of good knowledge for me to pick up here. This is exactly what I was looking for.
 
Why carbon? Because silicon is only 1/3 effective. :p

-AJ
 
From a value perspective, carbon just wins out 100%. If you want a Stainless Steel knife that can get as sharp as carbon (like AEB-L, Konosuke HD. etc.), then you're going to have to fork over a lot of money. And once you experience how sharp carbon steels get, you're not ever going back. After using carbon, something like VG-10 is absolute crap to me; no different from the Mercers that kids use when coming out of culinary school.
 
What is the brand and grit of their ceramic mugs?
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:justkidding:
Don't laugh at one point of time I was walking through walmart just looking for a very fine grain. The bottoms of most cups now are not level or flat all the way across for this to be a great deal for the cheap in mind person.
 
With Carbon, can you get a better cutting and performing knife for cheaper? To say it another way, do you get more bang for the buck at lower price points?


Yes. I have said it before and I'll say it again--the CCK 1303 has some of the poorest quality steel I've ever used in a knife. Ever. But it takes a better edge(and a lot easier) than, say, Forschner. It seems to me that carbon steel just can't get THAT bad, when it comes to a knife. The problem is reactivity and corrosion, and the old solution to that(sloppy stainless alloys with huge, soft chromium carbides) were not as well suited to taking and holding an edge. Now they are. It really is a new age for kitchen knives. The Carbon vs Stainless debate is just a matter of how you feel and what you like. I like stainless better in theory, but in practice, I use a lot more carbon steel.
 
The only reason to go with carbon is......Because You Want To!! There is no real advantage of carbon in cutting or ease of sharpening vs. some of the high end SS.

No my friend. The reason is sharpness ;)
I found 52100 to take the same edge as AEB-L, however O1, white and blue takes a sharper edge. You know us tomato nuts, we need that clean cut :)
 
Don't laugh at one point of time I was walking through walmart just looking for a very fine grain. The bottoms of most cups now are not level or flat all the way across for this to be a great deal for the cheap in mind person.

This is honestly one of the funniest ideas ever.

Maybe we're on to something? New sharpening stones made of ceramic?
 
This is honestly one of the funniest ideas ever.

Maybe we're on to something? New sharpening stones made of ceramic?
My boss laughed when I turned over a soup cup and started sharpening my Tanaka petty. A week later he was doing the same thing. I was just glad he didn't grab the pull through.
 
No my friend. The reason is sharpness ;)
I found 52100 to take the same edge as AEB-L, however O1, white and blue takes a sharper edge. You know us tomato nuts, we need that clean cut :)

I have handled some pretty poor AEB-L. Save a DT not even close to 52100 in sharpenability.
 
Oh, I dont buy from other makers than DT, BB and AMT, so I cant tell about bad AEB-L :) DTs knives are insane :)
 
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