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  1. #41
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
    I remember Cory Milligan (or maybe his brother) from New West Knifeworks getting bitten pretty hard in the ass by this community too, and he's ignored it ever since. We're a tiny, insular, and irrelevant demographic. There's no point in having your product "made better" by us snobbish nit-pickers when 99% of the people buying knives in this world do it based off budget, convenience, and brand-name recognition, with "performance" being an entirely meaningless property most people only comprehend in it's relationship to the junk with which they're already familiar. If Joel or Cory can get themselves lines out the door based off a few write-ups in the paper and word of mouth around town, more power to 'em. If I could sell a thousand knives without subjecting myself to the rigorous vetting of a community that quibbles over little things like the degree of convexity on the right face of the knife compared to the left, or the ethereal differences in it's "sharpenability" relative to some esoteric and imported Japanese paper steel, I would too.

    That said, I still wish we could get a passaround going on one of these, so we could quibble about the degrees of convexity on the blade face and what brand of motor oil he uses to quench.
    I think I understand your point too...but what's the point of producing high quality cutlery where you pay close attention to every detail if your target consumer base couldn't tell the difference between American custom made quality and mass produced Japanese/German stuff? If that is ultamately his goal then he should streamline his process a bit and increase production.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by labor of love View Post
    I think I understand your point too...but what's the point of producing high quality cutlery where you pay close attention to every detail if your target consumer base couldn't tell the difference between American custom made quality and mass produced Japanese/German stuff? If that is ultamately his goal then he should streamline his process a bit and increase production.
    Hmmm. Handcrafted cutlery being made as a labor of love with a serious attention to detail are part of his branding. You can't have a hip video showcasing your handcrafted process if your product isn't just that, and consumers--god bless them--gobble that romanticized production process up, even if they don't really understand it. It may be more labor intensive, but it generates an image which allows him to charge the premium he does. Beyond that, though, I think he just genuinely likes making knives and working with his hands. He could probably outsource most his production like New West did and still coast on his brand enough to keep charging a premium, but that would take a lot of the fun out of his job.

    Just some thoughts.

  3. #43
    Doing things the hard way just so you can say you did them the hard way without producing an superior product doesn't impress me. A couple of weeks ago I watched a bladesmith hammer out a very nice large gyuto from bar stock in about an hour. I'm guessing he could forge more knives per day that way than Joel can cut out and grind. I also watched him hand forge handle ferrules one at a time. Now that is handmade.

  4. #44
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    thats just it. were not supposed to be impressed. The average consumer watches his nicely directed short film about how passionate he feels about knife making while standing in a room full of machines and equipment and theyre impressed though. he doesnt care what we knife enthusiasts think ( im guessing here). The $$$ in whats trendy and the appearance of craftsmanshift. The shun and global crowd are easier to prey on

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by labor of love View Post
    thats just it. were not supposed to be impressed. The average consumer watches his nicely directed short film about how passionate he feels about knife making while standing in a room full of machines and equipment and theyre impressed though. he doesnt care what we knife enthusiasts think ( im guessing here). The $$$ in whats trendy and the appearance of craftsmanshift. The shun and global crowd are easier to prey on
    Working part time in NYC, I would say there are a lot of "cool hipster" people to prey on there.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle Soup View Post
    ...without producing an superior product doesn't impress me.
    Haha, but a superior product to an uneducated consumer is whatever they pay the most for, right? And consumers pay the most for whatever they can romanticize, like hand crafted free range no BGH knives. That means Joel gets to do what he likes, in the way he likes to do it, at a price he can afford, and gets to charge a premium for the privilege. The fact that he doesn't give a flying f*ck what the intarweb übernerds think isn't surprising in the least, lol.

  7. #47
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    I don't understand how anybody can expect to improve at their craft if they can't handle a little constructive criticism.

  8. #48
    I don't think any of us like much "constructive criticism." Ask any married man.

  9. #49
    Canada's Sharpest Lefty Lefty's Avatar
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    I think Vertigo nailed it. However, I bet his knives actually are better than most out there, even if they don't quite compare with ours.
    09/06

    Take a look around at: www.sharpandshinyshop.com

    Email me at: tmclean@sharpandshinyshop.com

  10. #50
    Senior Member labor of love's Avatar
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    I think vertigo is correct too. But I also think its unwise to count us out even if he doesn't need us.

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