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Thread: The Deba thread again

  1. #1
    Senior Member DwarvenChef's Avatar
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    The Deba thread again

    Ok with my last purchase I have raised my spending bar a bit, and I found I was ok so far with the ammount. Now that I have some solid traditional knives in my "set", Watanabe Ajikiri, Knousuki Usuba, and now a Kochi Yanagi, I'm back to looking/researching my Deba for the traditional KU set.

    What I need are new guide lines on what I should be looking for as far as physical atributes. Length and thickness and all. So here is what I will most likely be using it on, Salmon 5-10 range, Bass, trout, and so on. Maybe a few halabut but those may be just purchased as fillets. This is going to be a Home Use knife and do not plan on taking it to work so I will not need to push the size to accept the bigger fish.

    As with all my knives, Carbon steel is a must, handmade, and of course KU. These are secondary to this post as I really just want to see what Deba styles would best suit my needs. Then I can start looking for makers that specialize in these areas to make the deba (and for some reason I see Jon rubbing his hands together ).

    So please post your likes and dislikes of the different designs of Deba

  2. #2
    To be honest, Deba seem to be very consistent between brands. I've never seen many different designs in a Deba; a Deba just tends to be a Deba... Which is why I don't like spending too much on such a knife that's already so expensive, and I'm certainly not going beyond white #2 on a deba.

    But if you're talking about mioroshi deba vs regular deba, I always vote regular deba as the extra heft and thickness of a regular deba helps. I am 100% against all "inbetweener" knives like mioroshi deba or kiritsuke. They don't do anything as well as a real yanagi, a real usuba, or a real deba,

  3. #3
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    I would say get a standard deba, maybe choose a slightly larger size because you have the ajikiri to handle the small tasks, I would imagine you could order kurouchi from just about any maker you wanted. If in the same situation I would just give Jon a price and size and see what can be had.

    Quote Originally Posted by phan1 View Post
    I am 100% against all "inbetweener" knives like mioroshi deba or kiritsuke. They don't do anything as well as a real yanagi, a real usuba, or a real deba,
    I have to disagree with this. I see kiritsuke as the single-bevel equivalent to the gyuto, it is one knife that can do everything, but other task-specific knives may do those tasks better. I don't see much reason for mioroshi over hondeba, except maybe specific settings in which it might be a better choice.

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    Senior Member ThEoRy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phan1 View Post
    To be honest, Deba seem to be very consistent between brands. I've never seen many different designs in a Deba; a Deba just tends to be a Deba... Which is why I don't like spending too much on such a knife that's already so expensive, and I'm certainly not going beyond white #2 on a deba.

    But if you're talking about mioroshi deba vs regular deba, I always vote regular deba as the extra heft and thickness of a regular deba helps. I am 100% against all "inbetweener" knives like mioroshi deba or kiritsuke. They don't do anything as well as a real yanagi, a real usuba, or a real deba,
    I can politely disagree with the second part there. For one, my mioroshi deba is 6mm at the spine so I'm not missing much if anything in thickness there. For another my mioroshi is actually better than my yanagi at slicing certain proteins because of the extra weight. Lastly, I can filet any size fish large or small extremely cleanly with my mioroshi. Maybe no better but also no worse than a regular deba. Remember though, 90% is the person holding the tool, the other 10% is the tool itself.
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  6. #6
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    at 240mm, you are missing about 1/2 the thickness of a deba in your knife

    that being said, glad its working out for you.

  7. #7
    Senior Member ThEoRy's Avatar
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    Mine's 270, but what I'm saying is, am I really "missing" anything. I whack through bones like they aren't even there. Sometimes I get a chip but that will happen with any knife with that sort of treatment from time to time.

    Also Jon, hold a Gesshin Hide 210mm Deba for me. I will be getting one soon!
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    whoops... my bad. I thought it was 240. Sorry.

    Anyways, consider this... think about the kind of fish a 270mm deba would be used on. I doubt you are breaking down those kind of fish with your mioroshi. Am i right. More than likely, you are breaking down fish that you might be breaking down with something like a 210mm deba. In that case, you're right about not "missing" anything. I do understand where you are coming from on this, but i think you can also see where i am coming from.

    Roger that on the deba.

    -Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    kiritsuke is a combination of yanagiba and usuba... not quite a gyuto
    Kiritsuke is one of my most often used knives, I definitely realize it is not even close to gyuto. I knew my wording did not quite express what I wanted to say, but I meant to say much the same as Theory; "Maybe no better but also no worse than". I was trying to say that the gyuto can perform slicer tasks, utility tasks, the full range of uses with one knife; kiritsuke performs yanagiba tasks, usuba tasks, or even mukimono tasks in one knife. The versatility of kiritsuke is similar to the versatility of gyuto, I did not intend to compare the knives, but the amount of versatility that "in-betweeners" (mioroshi, gyuto, kiritsuke) can offer.

    Back to deba...

  10. #10
    Senior Member ThEoRy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    whoops... my bad. I thought it was 240. Sorry.

    Anyways, consider this... think about the kind of fish a 270mm deba would be used on. I doubt you are breaking down those kind of fish with your mioroshi. Am i right. More than likely, you are breaking down fish that you might be breaking down with something like a 210mm deba. In that case, you're right about not "missing" anything. I do understand where you are coming from on this, but i think you can also see where i am coming from.

    Roger that on the deba.

    -Jon
    I see what you mean about a true deba at 270mm. How thick would that thing even be? While I'm not carcking $750,000 tuna, I do however break down large fish up to 100lbs or so. Even skinning 25-35lb salmon would be neigh impossible with only a 210mm. I wouldn't do a lot of what I do with only a 210. I do need one however for the sub 30lb fish that we also do quite regularly. A lot of what I do could be done with a 210 deba AND another knife just for the skinning but I like to just use one knife for both tasks.

    Just today for example I did 3 large salmon, 2 large red snapper, 1 medium Chilean sea bass and 6 small grouper. I would have liked to use a 210 on just the grouper really. While the snapper were only 16 lbs each, they were very wide. The dish we are currently doing is a potato wrapped snapper so I have to remove the skin. A 210 is not going to be able to do that on that fish nor the salmon I did today. Break it down, sure no biggie, it might even be better at it for sure, but then I gotta grab my yanagi or suji for skinning.

    Although I did learn to clean fish with larger knives so it's just natural for me to use one, it is time for another addition to the family soon. A 210 would be perfect for me since I would be able to wield it on anything under my 270s range. I won't need a smaller deba for even smaller fish since I'm just used to using bigger knives anyway I guess. At least that's what I'll tell myself for as long as I can.
    Starting this harvest I'm a starving startling artist/
    Lyrical arsonist it's arduous spitting this smartest arsenic/

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