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Thread: J-Nat Club

  1. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by TaJ View Post
    Of course Asteger, you know that we now expect a short summay to these stones Me, i'd like to know more especially about the two stacked ones.
    Taj, you can't resist the pretty stones. I'm (not at all shocked) that you ask about that pair although the 5th one on the right, if you could see the sides or if wet, is also nice.

    Okay, here they are again:



    As said these are all coarse or medium stones, akato or nakato. I'm not quite as bothered about finishers as many people are, so most of what I have are like these and practical for knives. L to R: unknown 'Take Tora' naka, flashy Amakusa (bottom) ara, beautiful Natsuya (top) ara, great Numata Hyotan naka, very obscure Haguro ara.

    Since we were talking about lacquer, I chose these because you can really see the bit of colour the 'clear' lacquer gives to the Taketora and Haguro, and the wet look it gives on the Amakusa and Natuya, while I used amber lacquer to dress up the white Numata.

  2. #452
    Whoops, typo above: should be 'arato' as I wrote after

    Quote Originally Posted by Asteger View Post
    coarse ... akato

  3. #453
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sorry, Asteger, again a nice new Nakayama . With very nice Nashiji pattern on it. Already tried out- very fine stone. Quite hard. Very typical Nakayama, with it's typical smell and greenish slurry. Gives an ultimate edge and very noble finish. My next Nakayama, number....😜😜👍✌️

  4. #454
    Asteger, thank you for the info. I've never seen such stones as the stacked ones, the Amakusa and the Natsuya (these are Aratoishi ?) I think i could use one of this type as well (and a Nakato also). The not laquered side of these is to the left and not visible, right? I need to find out more about them online.

    Andrey, this looks interesting. Is what's shown the flat side?

    Cheers.
    Tom.

  5. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by TaJ View Post
    Asteger, thank you for the info. I've never seen such stones as the stacked ones, the Amakusa and the Natsuya (these are Aratoishi ?) I think i could use one of this type as well (and a Nakato also). The not laquered side of these is to the left and not visible, right? I need to find out more about them online.
    I don't know if you'll be able to find out much on some of these outside of here

    Amakusa common enough and there's more than one type, including the eye-catching one in my photo. They can be found for cheap in Japan in the odd hardware shop, and I didn't have high expectations for this one aside from looks but it turned out to be quite a nice stone if you find the right side to sharpen on. I think there are a couple other types, including white Amakusa; sometimes they've got these greenish stripes and can be nice, and some aren't. (I've got a good one like this, and another which is a dud.) Yes, the flashy kind like in my photo are on the coarse side and the white are medium. Whites like these can be called 'binsui' which is not a mine or place of origin, but a general name for a type of stone used in the sword progression. I've seen some of JNS's binsui with the same green stripes as mine, and so I believe JNS binsui are actually Amakusa.

    Natsuya are very rare and interesting stones, one of my favs. From what I know they were last mined over 100 years ago, which is pretty special when you think of it. The only place that has sold them in the past outside of Japan is Germany's own Fine Tools, so you might check there especially as you're in the same country, even though now they're listed as 'no longer available'. Yes, I think it's more of an arato/coarse stone, but has nice slurry and gives a good range.

    I don't think you would have seen 2 of the other stones, either. Off-white (hyotan) Numata like these are really good binsui-type medium stones, and there's next to no info available on the other colourful one, the Haguro, which is a nice old one to have and a decent coarse stone.

    Yes, with the Natsuya & Amakusa you can't see the drier sharpening side in the photo.

  6. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by TaJ View Post
    Asteger, thank you for the info. I've never seen such stones as the stacked ones, the Amakusa and the Natsuya (these are Aratoishi ?) I think i could use one of this type as well (and a Nakato also). The not laquered side of these is to the left and not visible, right? I need to find out more about them online.

    Andrey, this looks interesting. Is what's shown the flat side?

    Cheers.
    Sure, the flat one. The photo was taken yesterday evening in the car, so the color is reddish. In fact the stone has a typical Nakayama yellow-grayish color with Kanmaki and Nashiji, it's very fine and quite hard. But leaves an edge... And a very noble finish.
    Reg Amakusa- i have one, very similar to that one from Asteger, and a Binsui, again very close. Not really inspired of using them, they leave actually deep scratches. Agree with Asteger- it's a trick with Amakusa to find the right side. I missed the Natsuya- his is very similar to that one sold from Fine Tools GmbH ( you took it??
    Was not expensive- 119€, for a big brick. Amskusa costs nothing ca 40€ in EU max and up to 40$ max everywhere. I got mine for 25-30$, i guess

  7. #457
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    where did you get that cool looking Amakusa Asteger, I have one but it is just a regular one, nothing special, like any other one you can find around Japan? It works though, but it is not the best, still on my search for a good coarse natural, sounds like the Natsuya is just that, but are really hard to find now

  8. #458
    I'll let you know if I come across any, CV. This one was from a collector/contact in Japan, so I'm lucky. But, really, Amakusa stones like this look great but aren't considered to be special; they go for just a few thousand yen if you find one, though maybe some are more valued. Traditionally, there were plenty of other coarse naturals from various parts of Japan, and many might be more coveted than Amakusa, but my impression is that these days you can maybe hear or read of the other coarse/med stones, but that you can't find them anywhere for sale. Synthetics began to take over in the 50s or 60s and that was that. They're interesting, though, so if I get a chance I'll get them. As it is, I just have a few.

    Natsuya - yes, they should be hard to find. What I read was that they were last mined in the 1880s, so it's pretty much a fluke if you can get one and a bit incredible too. I'll have to check mine again, but they've been classified as medium stones even if to me they've seemed coarser. (I don't worry about this, it's just that grit ranges are often discussed here).

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey V View Post
    Reg Amakusa- i have one, very similar to that one from Asteger, and a Binsui, again very close. Not really inspired of using them, they leave actually deep scratches. Agree with Asteger- it's a trick with Amakusa to find the right side. I missed the Natsuya- his is very similar to that one sold from Fine Tools GmbH ( you took it??
    Was not expensive- 119€, for a big brick. Amskusa costs nothing ca 40€ in EU max and up to 40$ max everywhere. I got mine for 25-30$, i guess
    No, I didn't buy from Fine Tools, but what they had a year or two ago looked good, and €119 was a steal. As for binsui - remember binsui's a general class of stone, but if you mean white Amakusa then, like Amakusa generally, they're not going to be that well regarded and are hence economical. Also, I think I said above that they might still be mined, which will keep prices lower. I have 2 good Amukusa, and 1 crap. It's enough for me.

  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Asteger View Post
    I'll let you know if I come across any, CV. This one was from a collector/contact in Japan, so I'm lucky. But, really, Amakusa stones like this look great but aren't considered to be special; they go for just a few thousand yen if you find one, though maybe some are more valued. Traditionally, there were plenty of other coarse naturals from various parts of Japan, and many might be more coveted than Amakusa, but my impression is that these days you can maybe hear or read of the other coarse/med stones, but that you can't find them anywhere for sale. Synthetics began to take over in the 50s or 60s and that was that. They're interesting, though, so if I get a chance I'll get them. As it is, I just have a few.

    Natsuya - yes, they should be hard to find. What I read was that they were last mined in the 1880s, so it's pretty much a fluke if you can get one and a bit incredible too. I'll have to check mine again, but they've been classified as medium stones even if to me they've seemed coarser. (I don't worry about this, it's just that grit ranges are often discussed here).



    No, I didn't buy from Fine Tools, but what they had a year or two ago looked good, and €119 was a steal. As for binsui - remember binsui's a general class of stone, but if you mean white Amakusa then, like Amakusa generally, they're not going to be that well regarded and are hence economical. Also, I think I said above that they might still be mined, which will keep prices lower. I have 2 good Amukusa, and 1 crap. It's enough for me.
    Yes, i know
    As already wrote here, i think in coarser stones there is less risk to use a good synthetic stone, like Shapton Glass Stone. The natural coarse Jnats leave deep scratches, why to use them for that reason? I have them ad well, but... No comparison to Shapton. I say it considering the fact i " hate" synthetic stones in general. I don't understand also why to bring a knife to the point you have to grab a really coarse stone. BTW- the japanese-messer-shop in Germany has Amakusa for 40€ . They are cheep and mostly useful as a basement stone for my Tennen Toishi House .

  10. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey V View Post
    Yes, i know
    As already wrote here, i think in coarser stones there is less risk to use a good synthetic stone, like Shapton Glass Stone. The natural coarse Jnats leave deep scratches, why to use them for that reason? I have them ad well, but... No comparison to Shapton. I say it considering the fact i " hate" synthetic stones in general. I don't understand also why to bring a knife to the point you have to grab a really coarse stone. BTW- the japanese-messer-shop in Germany has Amakusa for 40€ . They are cheep and mostly useful as a basement stone for my Tennen Toishi House .
    Sorry, AndreyV - sounds like you've had bad experiences with lower grit naturals. But you can't build your home entirely out of Nakayama either. There are good ones, and more uniform than you've experienced. Don't put those Amakusa down in the basement unless they're poor quality.

    As for scratch patterns, I think non-polished uniform patterns can look great as a finish on wide-bevel knives, a deba for example. 'Perfect' fine finishes can also look good, but not all the time or it becomes boring.

    Just checked - I don't see any wild Amakusa on Fine Tools, but the 'site big brother wants not to be mentioned' has something similar, though I wouldn't bother even though they're cheap.

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