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Thread: Shigefusa

  1. #241
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    I've owned both kitaeji and kasumi knives and found that the kitaeji was a bit less reactive than the kasumi. Other than that, I agree with YG420 - there is no difference in performance. Mine had custom handles so I can't comment on the relative size of the stock handles.

    The cladding on the kasumi is a single layer of soft iron, though it may contain forging artifacts or clouds that can be revealed by judicious polishing. The kitaeji is made of multiple layers that are not etched, but polished to produce the contrast between the differing metals. So it's more than just polishing differences between the two variants - it's construction differences.

    The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pensacola Tiger View Post
    I've owned both kitaeji and kasumi knives and found that the kitaeji was a bit less reactive than the kasumi. Other than that, I agree with YG420 - there is no difference in performance. Mine had custom handles so I can't comment on the relative size of the stock handles.

    The cladding on the kasumi is a single layer of soft iron, though it may contain forging artifacts or clouds that can be revealed by judicious polishing. The kitaeji is made of multiple layers that are not etched, but polished to produce the contrast between the differing metals. So it's more than just polishing differences between the two variants - it's construction differences.
    Ahh, thats what I was wondering and perhaps those multiple layers being thinner could contribute to better stability as far as warping (or whatever). I guess thats why the price is so much higher on the kitaeji with all of the additional forging steps.

    Thanks,


  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacko9 View Post
    Thanks, Is the Kasumi is a single clad layer and the Kitaeji a multiple later construction that could possibly effect the potential to warping? If it's the same construction and just etching/polishing differences then I would be looking for a Kasumi since I only want a kitchen knife not a display knife.

    Thanks for the response,

    jack
    Sounds very reasonable Jack
    I have many in both versions and see no difference besides their looks.
    I mean in feeling or cutting performance.
    After all you should know that Shigefusa 's Kitaeji isn't that visible and can be shown by etching ( easy way) or fingerpolishing( more sophisticated way)
    It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
    Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.
    From this point of view any older Kasumi beats any today's Kitaeji, IMHO, sure.
    And what makes me - Shigefusa 's retention and indestructible love to chip...
    The older ( minus 30-40 years) were significantly more robust.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey V View Post
    Sounds very reasonable Jack
    I have many in both versions and see no difference besides their looks.
    I mean in feeling or cutting performance.
    After all you should know that Shigefusa 's Kitaeji isn't that visible and can be shown by etching ( easy way) or fingerpolishing( more sophisticated way)
    It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
    Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.
    From this point of view any older Kasumi beats any today's Kitaeji, IMHO, sure.
    And what makes me - Shigefusa 's retention and indestructible love to chip...
    The older ( minus 30-40 years) were significantly more robust.
    How many 30-40 year old Shigs do you have? My 40ish year old Yanagiba is definitely quite heafty and I love it =)

    My older Kasumi Gyuto is also heavier than the most recent Kasumi batch.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey V View Post
    Sounds very reasonable Jack
    I have many in both versions and see no difference besides their looks.
    I mean in feeling or cutting performance.
    After all you should know that Shigefusa 's Kitaeji isn't that visible and can be shown by etching ( easy way) or fingerpolishing( more sophisticated way)
    It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
    Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.
    From this point of view any older Kasumi beats any today's Kitaeji, IMHO, sure.
    And what makes me - Shigefusa 's retention and indestructible love to chip...
    The older ( minus 30-40 years) were significantly more robust.
    Interesting, my older Japanese Chisels (35 years) seem to be robust than ones I've purchased over the past five years. I'm glad that Fred (Japan Woodworker) pointed me in the right direction when I decided to go Japanese Tooling for my wood shop.

    It's been said they maybe tend to bend, but.. I saw/ have/ use older Shigefusa versions as well, both in Kitaeji & Kasumi, don't face this problem.
    Though Shigefusa used to be more interesting before.. The knives were much more sturdy, heavier and harder. Before his " western taste" adaptations.



    Are you saying that the multiple layer Kitaeji might be more prone to bending? I would have thought that the Kasumi might have more internal stresses (just my gut feel).

    Jack

  6. #246
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    Any clad knife can bend, sooner or later. On one hand, I remember reading that knives aren't considered 'settled' until almost 10 years old, which suggests that over time the chances are less. On the other, I think the comments in Shigefusa (originating from Dr Naka's blog) indicate a concern with protecting against warping in the long term.

    This doesn't mean Shigefusa are prone to bending over other knives, so I think that's a misunderstanding above. The topic was just discussed with Dr Naka and Iizuka shared some of his concerns for this in response to questions. The same blog said that Shigs have a reputation for not bending, while the kitaeji is designed to be like honyaki, not likely to bend, but with more strength and less delicacy like sanmai. So to answer Jack's question, no, kitaeji should not be prone to bend. The opposite.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asteger View Post
    Any clad knife can bend, sooner or later. On one hand, I remember reading that knives aren't considered 'settled' until almost 10 years old, which suggests that over time the chances are less. On the other, I think the comments in Shigefusa (originating from Dr Naka's blog) indicate a concern with protecting against warping in the long term.

    This doesn't mean Shigefusa are prone to bending over other knives, so I think that's a misunderstanding above. The topic was just discussed with Dr Naka and Iizuka shared some of his concerns for this in response to questions. The same blog said that Shigs have a reputation for not bending, while the kitaeji is designed to be like honyaki, not likely to bend, but with more strength and less delicacy like sanmai. So to answer Jack's question, no, kitaeji should not be prone to bend. The opposite.
    Thank you Asteger, that was my impression based on many thinner layers vs one thicker layer given the stresses a better chance to settle out. Kinda like plywood with the Baltic birch being mush more stable than some of the badly layered imported products that warp like crazy.

  8. #248
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    Shigefusa

    So, gentlemen, all- in- all Kitaeji should be (maybe) more resistant against bending, but I don't face it. And I compare different shapes as well( Yanagiba, Usuba, Gyuto, Santoku..) i think best compare is on Yanagiba- no problems. Older are heavier, and they don't tend to chip that easy. Frankly speaking the retention is better as well..

  9. #249
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    Still waiting a western Gyuto in 210mm. Lol any good news coming!!!!

  10. #250

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    Finally checked my email fast enough to get a 300mm yanagiba!


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