Shigefusa

[markenki]

Justin, you make some good points, but is it fair to compare the price of a wa kasumi two years ago to a kitaeji integral western today?

Shigefusas are special knives. You also have to consider that Maxim puts a custom handle on the knife. If I had the money, I'd buy it. But I don't, so it sucks to be me!

[bieniek]

Ah, thanks for the tip on the currency conversion feature, markenki!

Yeah, bieniek, Shige pricing has really gone though the roof in the past few years. Supply and demand and a bit of hype all play into this. I would say that a few years ago Shiges where under priced: you where getting single-custom maker quality at high-end factory pricing. This meant that when one came available, it was a no-brained to buy it. Now however, prices have put shiges into a whole different ballpark in terms of their competition. For +/- a few bucks you could have a full custom from any number of world-class, top-quality American or Japanese makers like Michael Rader, Devin Thomas, Bill Burke.

I wouldnt even try to compare americans to japanese but one thing is for sure:
Youre not getting any extra usability for that price. Thats the whole point for a tool isnt it? I accept paying the price of regular chefs knife because I think its fair for good quality tool, and that applies particularly to single beveled knives, but thats about my price limit.
This one is beautifull and all that, but at the end of the day cuts like any other knife from that producer.

[maxim]

Shigefusa kitaeji cost a lot more because of it is harder cladding and much more harder to work with also he spend much more time on making the knife and on Western model there is much more kitaeji material then on Regular wa handled knives.
For the price and time spend on the knife i dont think its expensive.

And really Shigefusa have always had very big demand.
Price increase is based on material cost increase and how much time they spend, so i think its fair

Dose it preform better then other knives, well no or not much more , but is it more detail and time spend on that knife from the maker, sure ! And i respect that and people who want to pay for it

Also A note that Shigefusa do not make Honyakis or other steel knives, So it is absolute best of the best knife he can make !!

[Von blewitt]

Does it perform substantially better? ... No, if I had the money would I buy it? ... Yes!

[maxim]

I also think its quite funny why should Japanese maker with many years of experience and generations of knife making be cheaper then any US or other makers
To me he should be more expensive then any new started knife smiths of coarse depends on quality and material used, but i think Shigefusa is one of perfectionist in knife making.

No offense to other makers, just my opinion

Now however, prices have put shiges into a whole different ballpark in terms of their competition. For +/- a few bucks you could have a full custom from any number of world-class, top-quality American or Japanese makers like Michael Rader, Devin Thomas, Bill Burke.

[heirkb]

I also think its quite funny why should Japanese maker with many years of experience and generations of knife making be cheaper then any US or other makers
To me he should be more expensive then any new started knife smiths of coarse depends on quality and material used, but i think Shigefusa is one of perfectionist in knife making.

No offense to other makers, just my opinion

I always thought this, too. Not like it's cheaper living in Japan, right?

[Cutty Sharp]

I also think its quite funny why should Japanese maker with many years of experience and generations of knife making be cheaper then any US or other makers
To me he should be more expensive then any new started knife smiths of coarse depends on quality and material used, but i think Shigefusa is one of perfectionist in knife making.

No offense to other makers, just my opinion

I haven't seen this discussed before, although I wondered and it's interesting to ask. Is it even possible to say who offers better value - the Canadian/US makers we see on KKF, or the Japanese?

[heldentenor]

All depends on the context. You get very different things from US vs. Japanese makers at different price points. For example, a Rodrigue, Martell, or Tsourkan gyuto in the $500 range offers a lot more personalization (leaving aside the questions of steel and grind) than an off-the-rack Heiji or Shigefusa. But is a $1000 Rader or DT a better knife than a Masamoto Honyaki?

[Justin0505]

I misspoke before: my 270 was kitaeji (folded steel cladding), not kasumi.
First, let me back up and say that I am a HUGE fan of Shigefusa. It was one of the most magical, impressive knives that I've ever use. The quality and detail that when into every part of it was just mind-blowing. Plus, for me there was an "x" factor something undefinable that just made it "special." The only reason that I don't have it anymore is that I had a chance to trade it for a 1-of-a-kind Muray Carter cleaver, that, if he where to make today (which he will not) would probably cost north of $2,000. If this does't show that value of Shigefusa as compared to any other "top" maker in the world, I don't know what does.

So, the point that I was trying to make was NOT that the current pricing on Shige's is too high, but that they are no longer the mind-blowing bargain that they where even a few years ago.

To make a car analogy, a Shigefusa is a hand-made hyper-car like a Pagani Zonda. A few years ago, it was priced like a Chevy Corvette, so when one became available, it was foolish NOT to buy it.
However, as price has increased, their competition in price is now knives that are actually in the same league as them (or much closer than before).

So, IMO, $1300 for Maxim's 210mm Kitaeji Western gyuto is a fair price for a knife that MAY have equals but perhaps none "better" and is very, very rare. However, it's more than I can spend right now and I, personally have knifes from other makers that I'd like to try/spend my money on first. However, I'm sure that I will regret this decision as this is the first western kitaeji I've seen for sale in probably 5 years and when I see the next one I'm sure it will cost even more.

As to the earlier posts about North American vs Japaneses, I would say that when you get into the league of Shigefuesa, single-maker honyaki or comparably priced US customs, they will all be fantastic knifes and so close in performance, f&f, materials, etc, that what it comes down to is personal taste / option and which is more "special" to the individual. If you are spending >$1000 on a kitchen knife, it's because of qualities and emotions that can't be recorded on paper or in "specs". The knife that makes you most happy is the the best.

[maxim]

Please i do not talk about value or who is best here. Its just weird why more experienced blacksmith should cost less then new started.
Thats all And as you know living in Japan is more expensive then in US. And also as we know almost all handmade knives from US and other is inspired by Japanese makers, thiner grind, harder steel, wa stile etc.

I haven't seen this discussed before, although I wondered and it's interesting to ask. Is it even possible to say who offers better value - the Canadian/US makers we see on KKF, or the Japanese?