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Thread: The gyuto grind

  1. #1

    The gyuto grind

    Do you like the center of the edge to fall directly below center of the spine or on a right handed gyuto (70/30 edge angle - left 6.5,right 15 degrees for example) would you rather allow for more right side convexity and have the edge left of center.

    I have tried a little variation and I am not good enough to tell the difference. Even if the edge was 50/50 it could still be designed to the left.

    Sometimes the left side of gyutos look like the are pretty oriented toward the left.

    If you have any other thoughts on what grind you like as the knife goes toward the spine I would love to hear about your thoughts and I will add some of my thoughts.

    David
    Last edited by David Metzger; 06-19-2012 at 10:40 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    If the angles are significantly different and the grind is 50/50 it will not make a lot of difference. If your knife is ground asymmetrically, and you give it a 50/50 edge, it will steer.

  3. #3
    Thanks Eamon, really good to know. I am so interested in the nuances of grinds and profiles but I don't have access to many Japanese style knives. I have a Japanese friend with a few from Japan that she showed me, they were mostly petty size. One of them had an interesting 1/16 x 1/16 bar about 3/4 up the blade on the right side to remove stickage - I couldn't tell how it was made but appeared to be a hand made knife.

    I think I will keep the edge close to center below the spine, with a flatter left side (slightly convex) and blend a couple different angles on the right side and then add the edge.

    David

  4. #4
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
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    When you see a gyuto with a centered edge you know it has been grossly abused by a guided system user who got advice on another forum. The usual geometry implies an off-centered edge. The normal procedure for grinding is: make a relief bevel on the right side till you raise a burr on the other one, deburr this one, and finally deburr on the right side by creating some mini-bevel. The edge will be very close to the flat, left side, and so to the stuff you're cutting, while the right, convex side will prevent sticking.
    Of course, if the knife is to be used by both right- and left handed a more neutral edge will be needed.

  5. #5
    Uhh...that's only true(being a "normal procedure", that is) for some Japanese knives, and even then, most are more like 70/30 than 95/5 like you are describing.

    Dave wrote a good post about asymmetric edges a while back, but while it is not uncommon to see cooks maintain their knives by sharpening one side only and deburring on the back, few knives are ever MADE that way.

  6. #6
    Senior Member hambone.johnson's Avatar
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    I will agree with Mr. Bruke on this one.

    many things come into play on this too. some knives are too thin to really be acceptable for a one sided grind. others are not. a konosuke is far thinner than an Aritsugu A type. you could push the A type with little reprecussion but you could push the Kono and really compromize the edge at the board contact point.

    i pushed my hattorii KF to a 95/5 and its awesome but its pretty fragile no matter how i sharpen it, compared to the Artifex i abuse on a daily and have on a solid 50/50. i can feel the KF flex and roll on the edge if i do somthing wrong and the edge doesnt hold as long or come back on a steel like others will. its awesome but singular in its situation. a knife should be considered what it is as a whole, thickness, taper, maker, steel type, clad or unclad, angle of sharpening and daily use reasons, flex, ect ect. and a lot of that just comes from handling, sharpening and owning a lot of different knives. experimentaiton is the begining of learning.

  7. #7
    Oh boy, I have much to learn and consider. Thanks everyone for your comments. I read the assymetry post started by Dave and I have looked at many edge up shots to view the grind. I think a vacation to Venice Beach is in order to talk with Jon, maybe a tour to some makers.

    David

  8. #8
    Senior Member Citizen Snips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurkeCutlery View Post
    Uhh...that's only true(being a "normal procedure", that is) for some Japanese knives, and even then, most are more like 70/30 than 95/5 like you are describing.

    Dave wrote a good post about asymmetric edges a while back, but while it is not uncommon to see cooks maintain their knives by sharpening one side only and deburring on the back, few knives are ever MADE that way.
    the A-type is the only one im aware of. i did that for a while but eventually decided to put a very small degree angle on the backside and found it performs much better.
    It's like my ol' grandpappy used to say; "The less one makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look a fool in retrospect"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Citizen Snips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hambone.johnson View Post
    I will agree with Mr. Bruke on this one.

    many things come into play on this too. some knives are too thin to really be acceptable for a one sided grind. others are not. a konosuke is far thinner than an Aritsugu A type. you could push the A type with little reprecussion but you could push the Kono and really compromize the edge at the board contact point.

    i pushed my hattorii KF to a 95/5 and its awesome but its pretty fragile no matter how i sharpen it, compared to the Artifex i abuse on a daily and have on a solid 50/50. i can feel the KF flex and roll on the edge if i do somthing wrong and the edge doesnt hold as long or come back on a steel like others will. its awesome but singular in its situation. a knife should be considered what it is as a whole, thickness, taper, maker, steel type, clad or unclad, angle of sharpening and daily use reasons, flex, ect ect. and a lot of that just comes from handling, sharpening and owning a lot of different knives. experimentaiton is the begining of learning.
    ive done the same with the konosuke and found that with a microbevel it holds up on the boards to some degree but requires more upkeep (almost daily).

    as far as the OP, i would find what the knife is ground at and do everything in your power to protect the integrity of the craftsman who made it. there are exceptions and some human error that can account for some minor changes but as a rule of thumb, i try to keep the knifes edges in line with the profile of the knife. this makes the sharpening much easier as you follow your bevel (thinning as you go) and put a microbevel (if desired). i have found that the more i try to change, the more the performance suffers.
    It's like my ol' grandpappy used to say; "The less one makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look a fool in retrospect"

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