What I Have Been Up To Lately

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Marko Tsourkan

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Two new heat-treatments for 52100 I have been working on two new heat-treatments for 52100. Based on feedback I received, sharpenability and sharpness has improved (according to one reviewer, as good as white steel). The second heat treatment is aimed to maximize wear resistance. This one is still in works, but in the next couple of weeks, I will have two forum members over for a rope cutting test. We will compare these two heat treatments for edge retention.

Peened Western handle bolster
prototype in works. I took Bob Kramer's method (slotted bolster) as a model. It is one of a more difficult methods, as it requires a precision fitting, so it is taking me more time to work out details. I will use this particular method for knives in stainless steels and 52100. I eventually will have blanks laser cut.

Forged Western handle integral bolster knives. I commissioned a couple of prototypes in 52100 and currently awaiting their arrivals. These will be forged from round stock and I will be doing all heat treating and grinding. I should have a prototype within a month hopefully.

Western Handle
Working on a coca-cola bottle shape handle, modeled on Bill Burke and Devin Thomas handle. I think these are the most comfortable and properly sized and shaped handles out there.

Grind
I have done a good amount of experimentation with different grinds and received feedback from public. I made changes and will continue tweaking geometry as needed.

D handle I made a minor change to a D handle.

Failures I had to take time to rethink my production process after I incurred a few failures. Introduced checklists to some steps of the process.

Custom Work
Unfortunately, not being on the top of keeping up with custom orders, but it is in par that I am doing all these changes to HT and geometry. Please understand it is imperative for me to send out my best work, than work I can complete quickly. I will work with each of customer and address any issues with delays.

Pass-Arounds
There will be two knives passed around, a western and a wa (D handle). There will be some conditions attached. Details are to come soon.

Thank you for your support and patience.

M
 
Great action Marko. Please include me in the passarounds. I'd love to see your work first hand.

PZ
 
Sounds like you haven't been very busy. :D
 
You've been busy. Really exciting to see all this. Would love to be included in the pass around! I can be your token amateur. :biggrin:
 
Marko, all your experimentation and desire to continue refining is refreshing and inspiring. The wait will be well worth it!
 
Funny, I was just wonder where you had been. I was going to send an email today, but now I know all is good.
 
Glad to see to see your post. I know you've been busy and I'm glad to see that it' s in large part to persue your search for perfection. Your thirst for knowledge and advancing your art is inspiring. And of course, I'm thrilled to be in line to have one of your creations. I'm sure I speak for all your expectant customers when I say to take all the time you need. i'm sure it will be well worth the wait. Besides, we enjoy the journey.
 
I love the idea of offering the same steel with different HT and therefore qualities. Very cool.
 
I love the idea of offering the same steel with different HT and therefore qualities. Very cool.

Thanks guys.

If I am able to combine both - edge stability (sharpness) and wear resistance (edge holding) in one heat treatment, that would be a best of two worlds. Working on it. :)

M
 
I guess that's one of the cool things about 52100, there so much you can do with it.
 
And of course, I'm thrilled to be in line to have one of your creations. I'm sure I speak for all your expectant customers when I say to take all the time you need. i'm sure it will be well worth the wait. Besides, we enjoy the journey.

I couldn't agree more.

Thanks for the update Marko.
 
Ha. A one character message is apparently too short. So: "??"
 
Preliminary indicators point out to new heat treatment as a success - the knife is harder to finish and to thin on Beston 500, a little harder to sharpen, but edge gets razor sharp after 500, 1000, and 5000 followed by diamond loaded strop. Rope cutting test is next, but I feel pretty good about this HT.

Geometry has been a rocky ride, but I think I narrowed it down to 2 types with best food release from all I tried. Need to figure out how to get both on video. In the mean time, sent out two knives with both geometries for evaluation in a pro kitchen, so should have some input in a few days.

These two developments put me back in the game. I will continue make changes as I go, but I feel comfortable about both.

Sorry Folks for the long wait and lack of communication.



M
 
On Tuesday, two forum members are coming over to learn how to make sayas and help with a rope cutting test. For the test I am planning to have two (possibly three) knives, all in carbon steel.

Will post updates.

M
 
On Tuesday, two forum members are coming over to learn how to make sayas...

M

Will there be a live broadcast? :) I would love to play with this, but I don't even own a nice saya as far as I remember...

Stefan
 
Well, these guys will be working for the lessons. Cutting rope is not as easy as it sounds, and there will be 3 knives in different carbon steels to test.
M
 
Yesterday, JohnyChance and Uptothehilt came over to help with a rope cutting test and to learn about making sayas. I went over the basics and did a quick carving demonstration for one of JC knives. We didn't go past that, as I glue sayas overnight, so the next week we pick up where we left off this week- shape, sand and oil-finish it.

For rope cutting test, we selected several knives with comparable thickness above the edge. I made a makeshift cutting station - an end-grain block attached to a digital scale with an external reader. For counting cuts, we used a mechanical click counter. We used 1/2" sisal rope.

JC sharpened all knives to same lever of sharpness, using same stones and strop. We exposed about 2.75" of edge, to speed up dulling.

The test asked for a pull cut, however, we did it with push cut, as it seemed a little more natural when cutting rope. At some point later, we will redo it with a pull cut and compare the results.

As this was an experiment (with not very high expectations), I am not going to post results, as we need to improve cutting technique (cutting 1/2" sisal rope is nothing like food) before we can use numbers in any meaningful ways, but I think we got a good feel for it.

It was pretty obvious that choice of steel and heat treatment had a direct effect on rate of dulling. However, some steels continue cutting even after they were dull to the touch, while others quit. Once we get better at testing, I will elaborate about this.

Overall, it was an interesting experiment and I want to thank both members for coming over and helping out. I hope we can do this more frequently.

M
 
Can't wait to hear more Marko, keep us posted. thanks for sharing.
 
Cutting sisal rope is definitely not as fun or as fast as cutting up food.
 
I enjoy reading all of this and know you have good reasons for everything you do, but what exactly are you hoping to learn through the rope cutting tests? Durability of the various steels and heat treatments?
 
Edge retention mostly but also stability. We tested other steels because we are curious, but the real benefit for Marko is testing different version of his heat treat for a given steel. Let's say theoretical HT #1 is easier to sharpen than HT #2. If they both cut the same amount of rope, why bother with #2? Or maybe #2 cuts twice as much as #1, is the extra edge retention worth the trade off of being more difficult to sharpen? Maybe #2 cuts 25% better than #1, but it also experiences some chipping. We can test these side by side in under an hour, cutting the exact same thing in the exact same way.
 
Edge retention mostly but also stability. We tested other steels because we are curious, but the real benefit for Marko is testing different version of his heat treat for a given steel. Let's say theoretical HT #1 is easier to sharpen than HT #2. If they both cut the same amount of rope, why bother with #2? Or maybe #2 cuts twice as much as #1, does the the extra edge retention worth the trade off of being more difficult to sharpen? Maybe #2 cuts 25% better than #1, but it also experiences some chipping. We can test these side by side in under an hour, cutting the exact same thing in the exact same way.

Interesting; thanks for the explanation.
 
Thanks, John for chiming in.

yes, these tests are useful to assess heat treatment, particularly when one is aiming for a certain outcome like wear resistance, sharpness or edge stability. It should also be possible to compare different steels' performance side-by-side, provided that geometry on knives is similar.

For now, we concluded that the latest HT for 52100 has better wear resistance than my previous, without sacrificing much of an ease of sharpening, so naturally, I will adopt it for all of my 52100 knives going onward.

There is one steel that we tried (for now I won't name it, plus I am not 100% sure what it is) that showed some impressive edge retention. I think I will give this steel (or steel I think it is) a close look in the coming months.

Then there is a powder stainless steel that I would like to evaluate and to see how it stocks up to 52100.

An ultimate test would be putting a knife into hands of somebody in a pro kitchen and ask them to use it without resharpening for as long as they can, and then use a feedback information to assess heat treatment, geometry, etc.

Rope cutting test, however incomplete, offers a snapshot about knife's performance, and though it might not be as accurate as when cutting an actual food, it will point you in a right direction, I think. Many makers have done it on their road to making performance knives.

Hope this explains it.

M
 
I was wondering about the whole knife test, and how it applies to food. (I mean the masters test) Would cutting a piece of food at the end be beneficial in the test? Would it also help show how the ht is related?
 
I spoke to a forum member today and he suggested to try to cut a tomato after every 100 rope cuts. I don't know if it will work or not, as sisal might kill the razor-edge pretty quickly, but I will try it. Always open to suggestions, so don't be shy to chime in.

M
 
I was thinking more like celery. I think the tomato would be to picky. Celery would show on the threads how the cut is affecting the food.
 
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