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Thread: Help choosing a 150mm Petty...

  1. #1

    Help choosing a 150mm Petty...

    LOCATION
    What country are you in? - USA

    KNIFE TYPE
    What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? – Petty Knife

    Are you right or left handed? - Right

    Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? – Either

    What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? – 150mm

    Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) – No

    What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? –$120

    KNIFE USE
    Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? – Home, mostly, but sometimes I assist with a friend’s small catering business.

    What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) –

    Garnish Prep
    Light Protein Fabrication (Trimming fat, maybe breaking down the odd chicken; no bones)
    Occasional Peeling (When a paring knife isn’t close to hand)
    Convenient Fruit/Veg Prep (Cutting potatoes, slicing apples, etc.)


    What knife, if any, are you replacing? – Wusthof 5” Parer/Utility

    Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) – On a knife this size, I tend to use a racket grip, or pinch on the bolster.

    What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) – Slicing, push cutting, detail cuts for garnish, incision cuts for proteins, etc.

    What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) – Edge taking & refinement (Preferably something which will hold a fairly acute edge, as well; maybe 12-dps? Also, fairly high levels of refinement: sub-micron stropping grits.) and blade sturdiness are my primary concerns.

    Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? – I'm not looking for any particular aesthetic

    Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? – A decent handle is always nice.

    Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? – I need a sturdy blade that won’t bog down or feel ‘too delicate’ to use in dense ingredients, like harder apples, and isn’t crazy-reactive.

    Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? – As long as I don’t have to stop in the middle of dinner to sharpen or touch-up the blade, I’m happy.

    KNIFE MAINTENANCE
    Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) – Yes, end-grain maple.

    Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) – Yes.

    If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) – See above

    Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) – No.

    SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

    Last time, I asked about choosing a workhorse gyuto, and was very happy with the advice I was given and my resulting purchase (A Hiromoto AS). I love this knife for doing lots of prep, but sometimes it’s nice to have a smaller utility knife next to your cutting board for quick tasks or when a more nimble knife is required, and this is what I’m looking for today... I have had some experience with a friend’s Suisin Inox AUS-8 petty, which was a very handy size, but the blade is thinner and more delicate than I would like. It had a tendency of jamming in dense ingredients due to friction on the thin, light blade more-so than wedging, and the tip was paper-thin and vulnerable to damage. The Suisin is an excellent knife for turning cherry tomatoes into paper thin slices or making novelty-shaped kiwis, but an inexpensive European parer/utility shows it the door when cutting late-season apples for a pie or making French-fries, which is the kind of thing I typically use this type of knife for.

    Here are some of the knives I was looking at; please feel free to make some extra suggestions if you can recommend any in my price-range:

    - Hiromoto Aogami Super 150mm Petty (There are still a few floating around.)
    - Kohetsu Aogami Super Western 150mm Petty
    - JCK Kagayaki CarboNext 150mm Petty
    - Teruyasu-Fujiwara Nashiji Shirogami #1 150mm Petty (The rough-looking grinds and F&F kind of worry me, but the steel and heat-treatment look quite promising.)
    - Tanaka VG-10 Damascus 150mm Petty (I’ve never had much trouble sharpening VG-10 in the past, but am a little afraid it won’t support a 24-degree inclusive edge taken to 0.5 or 0.25 micron diamond paste for very long.)
    - Gesshin Uraku Kurouchi Shirogami #2 150mm Petty (Well priced, and my SS-Clad Aogami Super gyuto has been surprisingly easy to live with, but I do have some concerns about iron-clad carbons being a different kettle of fish.)
    - Zakuri Kurouchi Aogami #1 150mm Petty (As above.)

    Thank you very much for your time! I’ll look forward to hearing your responses…

    - Steampunk

  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    for acidic tasks, and good edge retention, avoid white #2.
    dollar for dollar, suisin's western inox line is excellent. both JKI and Korin sell these knives well below your budget.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Benuser's Avatar
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  4. #4
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benuser View Post
    Hey, that's my petty!
    once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  5. #5
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    I own a zakuri petty and would not recommend it, I think the inox is right on, my inox has a better fit and finish than my zakura

  6. #6
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    I would suggest the Kochi Kurouchi, but it's above your price range and out of stock.

  7. #7
    Thank you all for your replies! That's the two carbon-clad petty's out of contention...

    Benuser - Considering that I'm looking for a relatively sturdy, small knife, a Sabatier Nogent seems spot-on, cheers! My only concern was the edge-deformation with the soft steel; particularly at the steep angles, and high levels of refinement I like to keep my smaller knives. I've worked with soft, European steel for most of my cooking life, and I must say that I'm a wee bit tired of having my edges roll quite so readily. The Hiromoto AS was a breath of fresh air to me by comparison, with its HRC in the low 60's compared to the low 50's. The Nogent's a good recommendation, though, and one that I will keep in mind if I cannot find a Japanese petty sturdier than the Suisin Inox I played with.

    I wouldn't disagree that the Suisin Western Inox (Which is one of the only petty's which I have personally used.) is a good knife... Fit & finish is probably the best I have seen of the J-Knives that my friends own, and the factory edge (I saw this knife when it arrived, and have sharpened it several times since.) is easily the best I have seen; the bevel (70/30; 10-degrees on the right side, 15-degrees on the left.) out of the box was as perfectly formed. For precise cuts, it also performs superbly. My only complaint is that it lacks the horsepower to get through denser ingredients. My 210mm Hiromoto Gyuto does this fine, as it has some weight and a fair bit of convexing behind it, as do every one of my western knives (Well, more so the weight; less so the convexing.). However, the Inox, just bogged down. I think it might be a matter of the grind; being so thin, it isn't pushing the ingredients apart so much as it cuts. This is good for some things (Cucumbers, tomatoes, soft fruits, and similar it cuts beautifully.), but maybe not so for denser fruits and veg. This knife is, by definition I believe, a 'laser'.

    I was searching for a 150mm petty knife with a little more metal on it, and - if my diagnoses of the one issue I experienced with the Suisin is correct - a more pronounced, less 'laser'-esque grind that could get through denser ingredients. However, I am curious now; is this symptom simply normal with Japanese petty knives? I have had the opportunity to handle/use a few Gyutos, now, including my own; ranging from 180 up to 240mm. The bigger the knives get, the more metal the have on them, and the more pronounced the grind becomes. The bigger gyutos get through tough ingredients easier than the smaller ones. On a petty, is there simply not enough metal on it to have a pronounced enough grind to get through tougher ingredients without friction clamping down on the blade? It's an interesting conjecture, and I would be curious to hear some thoughts on this...

    Again, thank you all for your help!

    - Steampunk

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steampunk View Post
    Thank you all for your replies! That's the two carbon-clad petty's out of contention...


    I wouldn't disagree that the Suisin Western Inox (Which is one of the only petty's which I have personally used.) is a good knife... Fit & finish is probably the best I have seen of the J-Knives that my friends own, and the factory edge (I saw this knife when it arrived, and have sharpened it several times since.) is easily the best I have seen; the bevel (70/30; 10-degrees on the right side, 15-degrees on the left.) out of the box was as perfectly formed. For precise cuts, it also performs superbly. My only complaint is that it lacks the horsepower to get through denser ingredients. My 210mm Hiromoto Gyuto does this fine, as it has some weight and a fair bit of convexing behind it, as do every one of my western knives (Well, more so the weight; less so the convexing.). However, the Inox, just bogged down. I think it might be a matter of the grind; being so thin, it isn't pushing the ingredients apart so much as it cuts. This is good for some things (Cucumbers, tomatoes, soft fruits, and similar it cuts beautifully.), but maybe not so for denser fruits and veg. This knife is, by definition I believe, a 'laser'.

    - Steampunk
    sounds like you're talking about seisin inbox honyaki not the western inox maybe?

  9. #9
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    damn autocorrect

  10. #10
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    Alright, I'm going to do it anyway, again, just not subtly this time lol. Spend way too much on a petty, get the Kochi if Jon says he'll have them back in stock soon.


    It's a pretty amazing little knife and although it's razor thin behind the edge, it's very stiff yet not brittle. I'm not knocking or disregading the other suggestions, I just don't have experience to speak on them, but the Kochi is everything you're looking for. Haven't really run into a piece of produce it couldn't handle and it's great as a boning or protein trimmer. It's not very reactive for carbon yet develops a beautiful patina over time. Really nice F&F and a simple but elegant handle. Nice weight, size, profile and balance for a petty. All imho.

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