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Thread: Looking for a Slicing Knife and sharpening equip.

  1. #1

    Looking for a Slicing Knife and sharpening equip.

    What type of knife(s) do you think you want?
    I am looking to get a slicing/carving knife. My wife got me one as a present but she wasn't sure what to get. So I've been given the task of picking out what I want if I want to return the one she got.

    She narrowed it down to 2 and picked this one. I guess it was on clearance at W&S for like $150
    http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produ...y=cknives-shun

    That was was picked over this one which is available locally at retail price:
    http://www.amazon.com/Wusthof-Classi...843790&sr=1-10

    I have also been recommended by a friend to get a Victorinox 10-inch chef's knife. It's on amazon for $30.

    What type of knife(s) do you think you want?
    I am looking to get a knife for cutting up meats that are grilled or smoked. The meats are normally brisket, ribs, chicken, turkey, flank steak, beef roasts, pork loin, etc.

    Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?
    It is being purchased as a gift for me. We don't currently have a good knife for this. We got a block of knives as a wedding present. It's Cuisinart, it was like $150. I thought that was expensive. Boy have I learned that's not the case.

    What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
    The block of knives we have are not very sharp anymore and we want something better.

    What grip do you use?
    Don't know. Just hold it and cut away

    What kind of cutting motion do you use?
    push pull slide back and forth. Depends on the meat. Not a chef

    Where do you store them?
    Don't have a place in mind yet. Either in a sleeve in a drawer or maybe a magnet on the wall.

    Have you ever oiled a handle?
    nope. I will assume it's for a wooden handle though

    What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?
    Nothing special. Plastic Target variety. Would take suggestions if it will mess up the knife.

    For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?
    Nothing as of now. I have been looking into this and the sharpening is what got me looking at different knives. I heard that the Shun should be sharpened with diamond plates and I found out they are pretty expensive. I would like to not spend another $100+ on sharpening stuff for one nice knife. Maybe this isn't true and you have better recommendations.

    The same person that recommended the Victorinox also recommended getting a King brand combo stone 800/6000grit stone and a flattening stone.

    I don't really know what I need. I think I would prefer a water stone over oil. Oil seems like it would be more messy to clean up.

    It would also be great if I could use the same stuff to sharpen the cuisinart set too.

    Have they ever been sharpened?
    no. The cuisinart set has a honing rod.

    What is your budget?
    She already spent $150 on the knife that can be returned. Something in that area is ok, but I don't mind if it is cheaper.

    Would it be better to have a 2 knifes one for carving and one for slicing?

    What do you cook and how often?
    We normally cook all meals at home. Nothing gourmet but we eat well. Lots of grilling. Chicken, beef, pork, fish. My wife likes veggies. I don't. She does chop up herbs a lot.

    Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?
    none

    Thanks in advance for any help you can give me!
    -CY

  2. #2
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    Welcome CYvilEng!

    How about something like:

    this one has a western handle and is 240mm
    http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/...-sujihiki.html

    this one has a wa (Japanese) style handle and is just a little longer
    http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/...-sujihiki.html

    These are both stainless and very nice knives. Either would likely be an improvement and the price is similar. As to sharpening, you wouldn't have to spend a lot of money, more so an investment in time to learn.

    Cheers!
    once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  3. #3
    Senior Member K-Fed's Avatar
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    As for sharpening the bester 1 or 1.2 k and suehiro rika are a fantastic place to start. You will want something to flatten the stones with as well. If thats outside of your budget the king 1/6k combo stone works well too.

  4. #4
    Engorged Member
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    The Gessin Uraku is an awesome knife.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ThEoRy's Avatar
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    You can do muuuuch better than either of those two knives especially for the price of that Kaji. For $300 you could even get a decent sujihiki and possibly a gyuto or something as well.

    For instance as was said earlier gesshin uraku 270mm stainless sujihiki AND a 240 mm gesshin uraku stainless will run you about 320 or so for both. That's a solid deal right there.
    Starting this harvest I'm a starving startling artist/
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  6. #6
    daveb's Avatar
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    CE - I do some part time work (play) for a local culinary store prepping for demonstrations and catering events. I've used, and still use the knives you expressed interest in above. Some considerations that may not be obvious include:

    Most retail customers do not want to spend the time or invest in sharpening equipment. They bring knives in maybe once a year to be sharpened on a pull thru grinder set at 20 degrees. Its a serviceable edge that probably makes more sense for them than buying sharpening equipment that does not get used.

    The wusthof slicer you linked will slice thin but the wavy blade will has little torsion strength and will bend, tear, chip easily. Its not suitable for anything with a bone in it. The blade is not serrated but is not straight either. It will not lend itself to sharpening or any sort of repair.

    The Shun carver I've used is duller than an Al Gore speech. Shun recommends that their knives be returned to them for sharpening. The retail part of the store sells Shuns but will not accept them for sharpening. Before considering further you should ask your local WS if they will sharpen the knife. (Ask them about 15 degrees as well but be prepared for a blank stare.) To you this means sending the knife off periodically for approx a month to maintain the edge.

    The Japanes knives described above would be very good initially but more difficult to maintain. Suggest you also consider wusthof ikon classic 9 inch carving or messermeister meridian elite carver.

    The wustoff ikon line is about 25% higher than the classic line, money well spent as the semi bolster will allow sharpening the full blade and the handle is a little nicer. The messermeister is also semi bolster and cheaper. They are not as delicate as the slicer you linked but are not bone crushers either. Either can be adequately sharpened locally. Dings can be ground out by someone that knows what they are doing - including several here.

    Also suggest you consider a cheap cleaver for whacking grilled chickens and ribs as well as chopping brisket. They are not pretty but will do the heavy lifting.
    Dave
    Older and wider.

  7. #7
    This has tuned into something more overwhelming then I could have ever guessed. I had no idea kitchen knives could be so different or have some many options!

    chinacats
    Welcome CYvilEng!

    How about something like:

    this one has a western handle and is 240mm
    http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/...-sujihiki.html

    this one has a wa (Japanese) style handle and is just a little longer
    http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/...-sujihiki.html

    These are both stainless and very nice knives. Either would likely be an improvement and the price is similar. As to sharpening, you wouldn't have to spend a lot of money, more so an investment in time to learn.

    Cheers!
    Is there a benefit to these knives over the Shun or Wusthof? I'm guessing its personal preference???

    Do you have any suggestions on what sharpening stuff to get?

    ThEoRy
    You can do muuuuch better than either of those two knives especially for the price of that Kaji. For $300 you could even get a decent sujihiki and possibly a gyuto or something as well.

    For instance as was said earlier gesshin uraku 270mm stainless sujihiki AND a 240 mm gesshin uraku stainless will run you about 320 or so for both. That's a solid deal right there.
    I must note that the Shun was purchased for $150, not $300.

    daveb
    CE - I do some part time work (play) for a local culinary store prepping for demonstrations and catering events. I've used, and still use the knives you expressed interest in above. Some considerations that may not be obvious include:

    Most retail customers do not want to spend the time or invest in sharpening equipment. They bring knives in maybe once a year to be sharpened on a pull thru grinder set at 20 degrees. Its a serviceable edge that probably makes more sense for them than buying sharpening equipment that does not get used.

    The wusthof slicer you linked will slice thin but the wavy blade will has little torsion strength and will bend, tear, chip easily. Its not suitable for anything with a bone in it. The blade is not serrated but is not straight either. It will not lend itself to sharpening or any sort of repair.

    The Shun carver I've used is duller than an Al Gore speech. Shun recommends that their knives be returned to them for sharpening. The retail part of the store sells Shuns but will not accept them for sharpening. Before considering further you should ask your local WS if they will sharpen the knife. (Ask them about 15 degrees as well but be prepared for a blank stare.) To you this means sending the knife off periodically for approx a month to maintain the edge.

    The Japanes knives described above would be very good initially but more difficult to maintain. Suggest you also consider wusthof ikon classic 9 inch carving or messermeister meridian elite carver.

    The wustoff ikon line is about 25% higher than the classic line, money well spent as the semi bolster will allow sharpening the full blade and the handle is a little nicer. The messermeister is also semi bolster and cheaper. They are not as delicate as the slicer you linked but are not bone crushers either. Either can be adequately sharpened locally. Dings can be ground out by someone that knows what they are doing - including several here.

    Also suggest you consider a cheap cleaver for whacking grilled chickens and ribs as well as chopping brisket. They are not pretty but will do the heavy lifting.
    Thanks for the detailed response! I'll have to check with WS about them sharpening the Shun. I'm going to guess that they won't though.

    I'll have to check out the wusthof ikon products. When looking at them quickly it made me come up with another question. What would be the difference between the wusthof slicing knife vs. chef knife? Would the chef knife be better at a variety of tasks but also be good at slicing?

  8. #8
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CYvilEng View Post
    Is there a benefit to these knives over the Shun or Wusthof? I'm guessing its personal preference???

    Do you have any suggestions on what sharpening stuff to get?
    Shapening suggestions would be in-line with what K-Fed said, the King 1k-6k combo is a great inexpensive way to start and his other choices are excellent if you are willing to spend a little more cash and get some stones that will last you likely a lifetime of sharpening.

    As to the knives themselves, when you buy the Shun or Wusthoff much of what you are paying for is marketing and overhead of a large company. The knives I pointed out are strictly made for cutting and the money you pay goes mostly to the guys making the knife; obviously as with any knives a small bit goes to the retailer as well. The quality is excellent and the blades are likely thinner and harder, though some people here do like Shun's so I am sure they may chime in as well.

    The best advice I could give is to call Jon--he is the owner of the site I sent links to and ask him a few questions. BTW, he is also a member of this forum. If he thinks that there is a better fit for you elsewhere, he will tell you that and not try to push a knife on you...he may even say to buy the Shun or Wustie. What he offers is the expertise to be able to differentiate between the blades and help you find the best fit for your needs.

    WS is a fine store, but look at the overhead to run that place and you have an idea of where a large part of the cost of a knife goes...the knives you are looking at are mass produced--nothing wrong with that--I believe the first one I recommended is also produced that way, while the second is made by hand, something you may or may not value; again it would be in your best interest to at least give Jon a call before you purchase--he is an excellent source of information and very honest. Guys here who are much more knowledgeable than myself (almost everyone here) also call him when they have questions, so you can at least have the input of someone who knows his stuff!

    Cheers and good luck!
    once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by daveb View Post

    The wustoff ikon line is about 25% higher than the classic line, money well spent as the semi bolster will allow sharpening the full blade and the handle is a little nicer. The messermeister is also semi bolster and cheaper. They are not as delicate as the slicer you linked but are not bone crushers either. Either can be adequately sharpened locally. Dings can be ground out by someone that knows what they are doing - including several here.
    I went back to the local store today to check out the Wusthof again. I did like the way the Ikon felt better than the Classic.

    Quote Originally Posted by chinacats View Post
    Shapening suggestions would be in-line with what K-Fed said, the King 1k-6k combo is a great inexpensive way to start and his other choices are excellent if you are willing to spend a little more cash and get some stones that will last you likely a lifetime of sharpening.

    As to the knives themselves, when you buy the Shun or Wusthoff much of what you are paying for is marketing and overhead of a large company. The knives I pointed out are strictly made for cutting and the money you pay goes mostly to the guys making the knife; obviously as with any knives a small bit goes to the retailer as well. The quality is excellent and the blades are likely thinner and harder, though some people here do like Shun's so I am sure they may chime in as well.

    The best advice I could give is to call Jon--he is the owner of the site I sent links to and ask him a few questions. BTW, he is also a member of this forum. If he thinks that there is a better fit for you elsewhere, he will tell you that and not try to push a knife on you...he may even say to buy the Shun or Wustie. What he offers is the expertise to be able to differentiate between the blades and help you find the best fit for your needs.

    WS is a fine store, but look at the overhead to run that place and you have an idea of where a large part of the cost of a knife goes...the knives you are looking at are mass produced--nothing wrong with that--I believe the first one I recommended is also produced that way, while the second is made by hand, something you may or may not value; again it would be in your best interest to at least give Jon a call before you purchase--he is an excellent source of information and very honest. Guys here who are much more knowledgeable than myself (almost everyone here) also call him when they have questions, so you can at least have the input of someone who knows his stuff!

    Cheers and good luck!
    Thanks for the input. It looks like Jon's shop is closed on Thursdays. I sent him an email so we'll see what he says. Based on the auto-reply message it sounds like he is pretty busy.

  10. #10
    Senior Member chinacats's Avatar
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    He is very busy, though I am sure he will get back in touch...the best way to reach him though is definitely by phone as going back and forth through email can take some time as opposed to the instant feedback, question and answer 'in person.' Good luck!
    once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right

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