Quantcast
Dispelling Myths - Page 3
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 110

Thread: Dispelling Myths

  1. #21

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    314
    Not exactly a myth, but:

    As I understand it, a kasumi finish is the result of grinding through a rough forged finish, so a kurouchi blade will be black at the top, gray kasumi towards the middle, and naked steel towards the edge--as in this thread that Jon contributed to:

    kurouchi


    What I don't understand is faux kasumi finishes. At 2:25 in this video a guy is using a jig to apply a faux kasumi finish. Is this the way it's usually done? Is he using a stone or something else?


  2. #22

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rockport, TX
    Posts
    4,892
    I'll let Jon address the question, since it is his thread. But I really want one of those knife-pinning arms.

  3. #23
    Sponsors
    JBroida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Posts
    4,050
    Quote Originally Posted by wsfarrell View Post
    Not exactly a myth, but:

    As I understand it, a kasumi finish is the result of grinding through a rough forged finish, so a kurouchi blade will be black at the top, gray kasumi towards the middle, and naked steel towards the edge--as in this thread that Jon contributed to:

    kurouchi


    What I don't understand is faux kasumi finishes. At 2:25 in this video a guy is using a jig to apply a faux kasumi finish. Is this the way it's usually done? Is he using a stone or something else?

    Kasumi just means mist. Kasumi finishes are applied in a number of ways. I would not call what you saw there a faux kasumi finish. Really, nothing we see is a faux kasumi finish. What might be more appropriate is to refer to faux kasumi finish for cheap kurouchi double bevel knives, where they have the kasumi look, but where the bevels dont follow where the kasumi finish.

    Kasumi finish does not necessarily mean the knife has been finished on natural stones (at least in the traditional methods of sharpening we often do).

    Moreover, the term kasumi (and hon-kasumi) have really become marketing terms more than anything else. Retailers use these terms to indicate the quality level of the blade (i.e. the relative skill of the blacksmith and sharpener, the amount of time the sharpener spends making the knife perfect, etc.). Kasumi are generally lower quality with regard to these areas when compared to hon-kasumi.

    With regard to what you see in the video, that is one common way of finishing a bevel. You may also see people doing this in a more traditional sharpening method on stone or applying the look with a sand blaster. They would all be kasumi (as they look misty).

  4. #24
    Senior Member jackslimpson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    lol... never said you cant do things with the knives they arent intended for... just stating that thats not what deba is designed to do, so if you pick one up and think you can hack a chicken in 2 with one because its a really thick blade, dont be surprised if there are some chips in the blade. I know people who use deba for chicken and done have problems. I also know that sometimes people gear their choice of steel/heat treatment so the deba will be tougher and can handle this kind of task better. Anyways, honesuki and garasuki are still better for the task. But at the end of the day, they are your knives and you can do with them as you please. That doesnt mean that deciding to use usuba to take the head off a 100lb tuna is a good idea, but feel free
    Great thread.

    I eat chicken and fish; I break down whole chicken and fish. If I thought it was ok to use one knife for both tasks, I would have one knife for them. Therefore, I like this rule, one knife for fish, another for chicken, because it allows me to get ANOTHER KNIFE. More rules, more knives.

    Rationalizatingly yours,

    Jack

  5. #25
    Sponsors
    JBroida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Posts
    4,050
    Quote Originally Posted by stevenStefano View Post
    I understand why you say it isn't really a good idea to sharpen knives totally asymmetrically, but one instance where I think it is a great idea is if you are a lefty and you're using a righty knife (so basically all of them). I have noticed food release on basically all of my knives improve massively when sharpening them with very strong asymmetry
    converting a knife from righty to lefty can be simple or complex depending on the grind of the sides of the knife. I see where you are going here and it makes sense to an extent. Just make sure you're not going too extreme with clad blades and if the edge starts to get very thin, maybe use a microbevel, a compound bevel, or a hamaguri edge. FWIW, huge flat grinds from "single-bevel-style-sharpening" on double bevel knives arent the best for food release, so a slight hamaguri edge is a smarter way to go for food release.

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    ....You may also see people doing this in a more traditional sharpening method on stone or applying the look with a sand blaster. They would all be kasumi (as they look misty).
    A lot of kasumi finishes look like they're sandblasted, but this is the first time I've had any evidence that they actually are.

  7. #27
    Sponsors
    JBroida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Posts
    4,050
    Myth- Kitchen Knives made by swordsmiths

    Truth- There are a few (and i mean VERY few) exceptions to what i am about to say, and even with those knives, they are not production knives (honestly, more often that not they are gifts from that craftsmen to a friend). Sword making is a very competitive field. Very few people are successful within this field in japan. With the Meiji restoration (1868), making swords became tightly controlled and is pretty much just an artistic traditional craft now. All but the most successful and talented sword making families/companies stopped making swords. Some moved into other fields, including making tools and knives. For generations now, families that have their roots in sword making have not made swords.

    The construction of philosophy behind swords and knives are very different as well. For example, swords are designed to be able to cut through people and armor whereas knives are designed to cut precisely though foods and meats of much softer composition (and with less bone and armor in the way ). Swords have soft steel in the core (for toughness and to resist chipping and breaking) and harder steel on the outside (for stability and strength). Their edges are constructed in a way so as to be able to cut through someone and still be ok to cut again. Kitchen knives are designed with hard cutting edges (for both honyaki and awase- or clad- knives). They also have softer steel on the outside (or at the spine in the case of honyaki blades). They are designed to cut precisely, but not to be able to withstand the same kind of abuse swords can take.

    In my conversations with a sword smith (who happens to be a family friend and a provincial treasure), he always mentions how different swords and kitchen knives are (as i often try to pick his brain for knowledge in forging and sharpening).

    So, in conclusion- making good swords ≠ making good knives or visa versa. Making good knives = making good knives and making good swords = making good swords. This is probably oversimplified, and i'm sure there are one or two guys out there who make great swords and great knives, so take this for what its worth.

    Oh... and just because a blade has damascus cladding doesnt make it the same as katana.

  8. #28
    Sponsors
    JBroida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Posts
    4,050
    Quote Originally Posted by wsfarrell View Post
    A lot of kasumi finishes look like they're sandblasted, but this is the first time I've had any evidence that they actually are.
    you might be surprised at some that look sand blasted and are not or visa versa. FYI, sand blasting is more common on cheaper blades but sometimes can be used on more expensive blades. People like pretty things, no?

    Also, there are still a lot of craftsmen out there using more traditional methods, so dont be disheartened.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by JBroida View Post
    you might be surprised at some that look sand blasted and are not or visa versa. FYI, sand blasting is more common on cheaper blades but sometimes can be used on more expensive blades. People like pretty things, no?

    Also, there are still a lot of craftsmen out there using more traditional methods, so dont be disheartened.
    Far from disheartened, I'm just trying to figure out which Harbor Freight sandblaster would have the horsepower to do a kasumi finish.

    Seriously, though, do you have any sources for that blade clamp/polishing jig/pinning arm in the video?

  10. #30
    Sponsors
    JBroida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Posts
    4,050
    most craftsmen make most if not all of their own tools

    also, just sandblasting is not enough... there is much more prep work that goes into the knife before that point. I feel very comfortable saying its not the easiest way to get a nice kasumi finish.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts