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IFF done correctly (meaning only the target gene+promoter+any regulatory genes are inserted), I don't believe that there is a problem. Genetic engineering is simple in concept, but in practice, it's a PITA. Tons of things can go wrong - wrong DNA sequence isolated and gene inserted, several genes inserted, promoter/regulatory sequences have adverse effects on other genes, yada yada yada.

IMHO, they're fine for the most part. The issue with the crop producing the bacterial toxin was a huge oversight on the part of the company producing the plant and this definitely calls for very strict testing of the foods, which I do think the FDA is doing in the states.
 
Um from the same peole that says agent orange was safe for humans. Used to have roundup as biodegradable. Crooks are taking farmers to court for growing their product when seeds blow in. Wod go into moer detail but typing on a phone sux.
 
If you get a GMO product that isn't safe for human consumption, you probably have a corrupt or incompetent government agency.

GMO food are tested MUCH more strenuously then non gmo foods. The thing people SHOULD be concerned with is the legality of seed saving, what happens to an environment over many generations, how will it affect change in the insect populations, and these studies take much more money time and legislation --- all of which they deserve.

I spend a lot on money at the farmers market doing restaurant buying, and have 25-30 tomato plants in my garden, and while I see abuse of workers, carcinogenics pesticides, wasteful southwestern irrigation, and under regulation of gmo foods....There is still almost no greater improvement made to modern health and global security than scientifically sophisticated global food production and distribution. Immunization beats it out in my book but not much more. People need to expect more from regulatory agencies instead of demanding the impossible of small local farmers.

I don't normally swing this far in this direction but I just listened to this guy speak lol

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1586489402/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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Well, the video is made to scare and to some degree I hope it does scare people into a bit more awareness. I lived in Europe for quite some time before I relocated back to the US and I was bit shocked at how little the term GMO was raised, how few times it popped up in the news, and how little people understood what GMOs were. And though I don't like many of the developments that companies like Monsanto and other chemical companies are doing in this area, there are a lot of other negative consequence that rarely get publicized. The Franken Tomato is headline grabbing, but there are other problems too.

* This isn't just about one farmer choosing to buy Monsanto seeds and pesticide to increase his yields. The GMO crops can migrate to other fields and cross pollination can spread them to other species. So the organic farmer next door is ultimately also at risk -- his crop can be polluted by GMO crops quite easily. And all it takes is a GMO product finding a sexually compatible weed and off it goes. Escaped transgenic plant populations happen, so it is only time before that tomato that withstands the cold passes those traits onto another plant/weed, which then allows that plant to spread to climates where it normally couldn't grow. So a GMO plant/weed hybrid in Kansas may eventually destroy a potato crop in North Dakota because it can now handle the cold.

* The 'benefits' of GMO crops are also very sketchy outside of industrialized row-crop ag countries such as the US and Canada. The 'miracle' corn and plant seeds cost more PLUS they are often linked to that company's pesticides. In developing countries you might buy the seed for better yield BUT you are also stuck buying their expensive pesticides and equipment to apply it. GMO is not a revolution to feed the world.

* Additionally, even though it seems somewhat logical to take a naturally occurring pesticide or bacteria and insert it into a plant's DNA to combine the benefits (people have been hybridizing plants for hundreds of years), a lot of insects are quickly becoming resistant, and the benefits of many naturally occurring pesticides are now being lost to the world. It's not much different than antibiotics becoming less effective in humans from overuse and misuse. The percentage of crops lost every year to insects is actually rising even though the amount of chemicals being used by farmers is much larger. Sure, we may get the benefit for several years of higher crop yields, but eventually we are losing those valuable natural traits that have kept things in balance for so long -- but hey, at least Monsanto got 20 years of good profit from wiping out a bacterial benefit of nature that has been around for millions of years ;)

* And call me crazy, but the idea of Monsanto having patent rights to a food/seed and making farmers obtain a license to work the crop annoys me. And btw, if your neighboring field ever gets infected by spillover GMO seeds, companies such as Monsanto have sued farmers for working their 'food' without license. So they will exercise their patent rights when it suits them, but when their seed breeds with a weed and creates an invasive species causing costly damage, they somehow don't care about their patent claim. It's the American way: privatize profits and socialize risk.

So IMO it is not just about the icky idea of eating a fish tomato, GMOs are supercharging biodiversity changes in ways that can cause other harm too.

k.
 
Well, the video is made to scare and to some degree I hope it does scare people into a bit more awareness. I lived in Europe for quite some time before I relocated back to the US and I was bit shocked at how little the term GMO was raised, how few times it popped up in the news, and how little people understood what GMOs were. And though I don't like many of the developments that companies like Monsanto and other chemical companies are doing in this area, there are a lot of other negative consequence that rarely get publicized. The Franken Tomato is headline grabbing, but there are other problems too.
That is because the GMOs in Europe are very strictly regulated and not many foods are GMO there.
 
GMO is as old as agriculture. any other opinion is, simply, wrong.
 
* The 'benefits' of GMO crops are also very sketchy outside of industrialized row-crop ag countries such as the US and Canada. The 'miracle' corn and plant seeds cost more PLUS they are often linked to that company's pesticides. In developing countries you might buy the seed for better yield BUT you are also stuck buying their expensive pesticides and equipment to apply it. GMO is not a revolution to feed the world.

corn, wheat, rye, watermelon, bananas, everything else we grow and eat, are GMO foods. plucking the bad looking plants or using a retro-virus, it's all exactly the same. this county doesn't really like science, is the problem. Europe has crazies they can't shoot. that's their problem.
 
I personally hate Monsanto and try my best to eat locally grown heirloom varietals whenever possible. Just like many things, there are risks and benefits. I happen to just like natural foods, grown by traditional agriculture without genetic modification. I also enjoy my meat animals to be grown free range without hormones or antibiotics. The problem is the risks (some known and some unknown) to neighboring farms and people who consume the food.

All this being said, I'm just an old happy hippy, so it works for me:biggrin:
 
Monsanto sucks. All agricultural products are the product of genetic modification, whether done by a Mesoprotamian armed with a stick or a biologist armed with retro viruses. There is no such thing as natural agricultural. I'm done with this, as nobody who already has a negative opinion of gmo, due to whatever stupid, probably anti-vax, source they read, will listen.
 
All agricultural products are or have been selectively bred which is different than genetic modification by means of Monsanto and like companies. Traditional (natural) agriculture in my mind is using selective breeding techniques, organic fertilizers and no pesticides. It is more labor intensive, produces great tasting food that cannot be trucked across country and still be 'ripe.' That's all I am trying to say. As to reading, there are many things that you could read that would make you change your mind on either side of this debate. I read quite a bit as well and this is how I formed my opinion.
 
All agricultural products are or have been selectively bred which is different than genetic modification by means of Monsanto and like companies. Traditional (natural) agriculture in my mind is using selective breeding techniques, organic fertilizers and no pesticides. It is more labor intensive, produces great tasting food that cannot be trucked across country and still be 'ripe.' That's all I am trying to say. As to reading, there are many things that you could read that would make you change your mind on either side of this debate. I read quite a bit as well and this is how I formed my opinion.

There is no biological difference.
 
Monsanto sucks. All agricultural products are the product of genetic modification, whether done by a Mesoprotamian armed with a stick or a biologist armed with retro viruses. There is no such thing as natural agricultural. I'm done with this, as nobody who already has a negative opinion of gmo, due to whatever stupid, probably anti-vax, source they read, will listen.

All agricultural products are or have been selectively bred which is different than genetic modification by means of Monsanto and like companies. Traditional (natural) agriculture in my mind is using selective breeding techniques, organic fertilizers and no pesticides. It is more labor intensive, produces great tasting food that cannot be trucked across country and still be 'ripe.' That's all I am trying to say. As to reading, there are many things that you could read that would make you change your mind on either side of this debate. I read quite a bit as well and this is how I formed my opinion.

The only thing all of my reading on this topic has made me sure of is that both sides have a strong tendency to oversimplify the issues.
 
There is no biological difference.

Sure there is...anything that can be grown in Florida and shipped to New England and still be at it's peak (though not very good) is completely different than something I can grow in my yard, pick at the peak of freshness and eat ripe off the vine. The Monsanto lawyers would argue this point all day and it is why they can prove the difference or similarities if it works to their advantage in court. They sell this story all the time, their plants are 'genetically superior' because they have been bred for specific purposes. Not trying to be argumentative, but again this is Monsanto's argument that makes all the patented seeds they produce so valuable--and so supposedly secretive.

If genetically different is not biologically different then we have a discussion that cannot be resolved.

At least we both agree that Monsanto sucks!:)
 
Asking this is almost like asking for a political or religious discussion! I for one am anti GMO. I buy Organic whenever possible, whatever that means.
 
There is no biological difference.

I have to disagree with you there. Yes, selective breeding has occurred throughout the ages and it does favor certain genes and mutations over others, and it eventually creates new species, but it's a more natural process than GMO. With selective breeding, we're dealing with the plant in it's original form and changing it slowly by emphasizing certain attributes. GMO, however, introduces alien genes into the host genome, which leads to the production of alien proteins in the host.

The biological difference between GMO and selectively bred organism is the presence of alien proteins and their effects on the life functions of the host organism.
 
So I watched that video and next thing I know I'm watching some Brits jacking off a super bull with a big gulp sippy cup!!!! You have been warned!!
 
One other very important thing to remember is that the great potato famine occurred because the Irish had decided that one type of potato was all they needed to grow. Once something new attacked it, they lost everything, had there been some genetic diversity among the potatoes being grown, there is a convincing argument that the famine never would've happened. Think we only need one super breed of corn, potato, tomato, etc.? This argument is what Monsanto is selling farmers throughout the world.
If Monsanto thinks they can outsmart nature, then they should look into the most recent medical conundrum involving antibiotics and gonorrhea.
 
One other very important thing to remember is that the great potato famine occurred because the Irish had decided that one type of potato was all they needed to grow. Once something new attacked it, they lost everything, had there been some genetic diversity among the potatoes being grown, there is a convincing argument that the famine never would've happened. Think we only need one super breed of corn, potato, tomato, etc.? This argument is what Monsanto is selling farmers throughout the world.
If Monsanto thinks they can outsmart nature, then they should look into the most recent medical conundrum involving antibiotics and gonorrhea.

that is a political and business problem, not a science one.
 
The biggest problems with GMO crops is not the crops themselves, but our insane agribusiness and patent laws.

The problem that those causes(Monsanto, Bayer, et al + US Government) that is greater than the GMO problem is the monoculture problem. Most of the issues with GMO crops would be negligible or nullified altogether if it didn't lead to 4,000 unbroken acres of one variety of aggressive corn.

I buy as local as I can, from the people I like the most.
 
The biggest problems with GMO crops is not the crops themselves, but our insane agribusiness and patent laws.

The problem that those causes(Monsanto, Bayer, et al + US Government) that is greater than the GMO problem is the monoculture problem. Most of the issues with GMO crops would be negligible or nullified altogether if it didn't lead to 4,000 unbroken acres of one variety of aggressive corn.

I buy as local as I can, from the people I like the most.

+1

As always, the consumer/farmer needs to educate themselves and take well-understood and appropriate risks.
 
corn, wheat, rye, watermelon, bananas, everything else we grow and eat, are GMO foods. Europe has crazies they can't shoot. that's their problem.



Humans does not know anything about genes, DNA is one huge mystery, we even have a problem with naming proteins, yet we push for the hardest tasks without even thinkig of concequences.

So now, can you tell me for sure, 100 % clarity, straight, one word answer, that GMO is safe? And Im not saying about some chinese growing 3 legs or arms, but can you assure me, that i 50 years perpective, were not going to have any additional[read: difficultier] problems with soil, health of people or animals, air, insects and so on.
Im neither like or dislike it, but when I read about Monsanto and such, I know they dont give any shite about worlds hunger. Ony thing they care about is their dollar-hunger, thats about it.

The other problem I see is that we try to make everybody equal.
[while the fellow in netherlands producing fake-lab-meat]
Poors in africa/china/india/wherever have to get their steak like we here do, so we could feel better. For me its not, this is not the way to go.
Lets get back to basics - youre poor, sorry, or youre lucky and you make it and give better chances to your kids or heck off and die!
I know it doesnt realy sound politically correct, but hell, if we continue to grow worlds population like we do, and even if monsanto invents corn that is a size of buss, we are not going to make it.
 
nothing is 100% safe. many foods that were "traditionally modified" are not safe. oxygen isn't 100% safe. mother's milk isn't 100% safe. nothing is. foods and other products that are modified by humans in labs have to pass stringent safety tests. if you take medications that are prescribed to you by a medical doctor then you are tacitly approving the same regimen required for GMO safety.
 
This is all Gregor Mendel's fault damn Augustinian friars!
 
I've been enjoying this discussion except for the personal insults, etc. Please keep the talk civil, we don't all have to agree and we're all entitled to our opinions.

I'm off to remove some of the inappropriate comments/posts.
 
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