Fluoride?

[lowercasebill]

let me start with a bit of an introduction ,. i saw my first patient, as a dental student, this month in 1976 and since then have spent a good portion of my day, 5-6 days a week, with my fingers in someone elses mouth.
imho this discussion is best divided into parts.
first .. fluoride. it works and it works wonders. look at todays 20-30somethings they have virtually no decay and the only dental injection they ever had was for wisdom tooth removal. now look at my generation ..basically all the molars of everyone of us babyboomers have fillings crowns or are missing. in 36 yrs i have seen two of my generation with a full set of unrestored teeth ,, they were both french and grew up poor on the brittany coast. you have no idea the disaster a decay prone no fl set of primary teeth is.
second.. fluorosis.. from too much flouroide.. why .. too many sources and lack of supervision. fluoride in the water in the vitamins and in the toothpaste . a child shoud have a pea sized amt of toothpaste parents put too much on , kids put way too much on and they spit but they don't rinse.. and tooth paste tastes good to kids you would be surprised how many toothpaste tube suckers there are.
third.. conspiracy theories are exactly that. . i have heard them all . poison from the govt ,from the russians ,it causes cancer or hangnails what have you.. the guy that started them in the 60's was seriously slapped in court serveral years ago
what now..... the problem is....... the more well off give their childern fluoridated vitamins and use fl toothpaste .. properly used this works well .. those who dont get fl due to income, social issues ect are then doomed..... so the fluoride stays in the water for them [but they probably drink soda instead of tap water anyway]. so if you take it out of the water the poor and undereducated will suffer. it is up to the public health experts, social engineers and politians to figure this one out.
In closing . fluoridated water did work and was a good idea at one time.
appologies to anyone offended
lcb

[Andrew H]

Fluoridation is the act of artificially adding fluoride to a substance, whether drinking water, food, or etc. You are correct about he WHO recommending 1.5mg/L, but it is important to understand why these numbers are in place. This is exactly what I was discussing in my previous post. The WHO (WORLD is the key word), makes recommendations based on what they feel are the benefits and risks across the world. The EPA in this case is a better indicator for the US. Currently, the EPA has 2 guidelines for water fluoridation
1) 4 mg/L, which is the enforceable EPA MCLG standard for serious health effects. Meaning that no serious health effects are likely to occur at said levels.
2) 2mg/L MCLG standard, which is the secondary and not enforceable fluoridation limit. Past this level there is some occurence of "cosmetic" dental fluorosis.

The second standard, as well as the WHO standard, is based on the fact that there are natural sources of fluoride that occur, which are not included in this fluoridation limit. So, when considering geographical regions where large amounts of granite and gneiss appear, causing increased natural fluoride "contamination", it is safer for an organization such as the WHO to recommend a lower MCLG. In the US, this happens quite a lot in California and the Great Lakes area. Children living in these areas are most likely to suffer from dental fluorosis.

My point here is that we should all be careful with numbers and statistics.....

Regards,
Chris

Very nice post, Chris. Still, no matter how you slice the statistics I posted, the WHO, the EPA and the department of HHS all recommend a lowering of our MCLG standard.

[lowercasebill]

dont know if it is googleable ? what? but the original research was done by H. Trendly Dean [or Deane] and was about Colorado brown stain [fluorosis here to for unknow] . he identified Fl as the cause .. and also noted the negligable decay rate . his reseasrch led to fl in the water .. and if you are old enough... the teaneck [sp] NJ studies so often quoted in the ads for crest with stannous fl .. which is not used in children any more do to the yellowing of the teeth guess who has yellow teeth from it?
thanks for your thoughtful accurate and informative posts .
lcb

[Lawrence]

'Better living through chemicals', my friend. Corporate controlled government cares about you!

couldn't have said it better...

[SpikeC]

Here inPuddle town we have never had fluoridation, and it is now being proposed. The concentration being proposed is .8 mg/L, well below the problem levels being sited. It is causing something of a chit storm (dodging the censors) to say the least. The kids in the rich neighborhoods have good teeth and the poor ones don't, so someone says it is unnecessary as it is the parents responsibility, negating their argument as far as I am concerned.
It seems to me that the whole thing comes down to concentrations, the anti people cite the ill effects that come from too much, ignoring the benefits that come from appropriate levels.
I get my dental work from the VA and at 63 years of age have been having some cavities. My provider gives me fluoride tooth paste.

[mr drinky]

I say **** fluoride. That **** ***** things up.

k.

[SpikeC]

Water can kill you too!

[RRLOVER]

I have a IEPA class C water operator license,so water is my thing.I feel there is enough in the tooth paste that there really is no need for it in the water.Also every one is drinking bottle water these day.One more thing if any of you seen a fluoride room you would 100% not want to consume any quantity.

[Tristan]

Singapore has been providing potable tap water with a 0.6mg/l level of fluoride (constantly reduced over the years in line with modern research) since 1957. I drink water straight from the tap, as do many people here. Reviewed the levels years ago, seems fine and within the threshold that many bottled water manufacturers use as guidelines.

There are tests and statistics that review the impact of fluorosis on the general population, and the benefits still outweight the risks in the minds of our decision makers.

Not everyone brushes twice daily, and few floss daily - regardless of social status/class hence the broad application of a simple preventative.

4mg/l seems ridiculously high though. Seems America is providing what has been shown to be a good solution, just that they are heavy handed and not keeping up with the latest recommended levels.