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  1. #11
    Senior Member Deckhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    Sous vide as a technique doesnt involve packing under vacuum.

    You got that wrong.
    I remember some of those discussions relating to eggs since they weren't vacuum sealed but just slow cooked in water bath like a poach,but called sous vide. I know the term itself means under vacuum. What is your source on this. Do you have a link to a discussion on egullet? Just trying to refresh my own memory.

  2. #12
    Senior Member quantumcloud509's Avatar
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    David Chang turns packaged ramen noodles into gnocchi. For me, thats modernist.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Deckhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantumcloud509 View Post
    David Chang turns packaged ramen noodles into gnocchi. For me, thats modernist.
    For me it was anything done by Ferran Adria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deckhand View Post
    I remember some of those discussions relating to eggs since they weren't vacuum sealed but just slow cooked in water bath like a poach,but called sous vide. I know the term itself means under vacuum. What is your source on this. Do you have a link to a discussion on egullet? Just trying to refresh my own memory.
    The term doesn't mean under vacuum. Packing under vacuum eliminates air from packaging, which improves heat transfer, as water conducts heat better than air. Bags then drown, resulting in water surroundings.
    You can easily skip this by rolling produce in plastic wrap.
    Of course due to lack of oxygen
    I have info from Modernist Cuisine books, many different websites and other older books, and Thomas Kellers "Sous Vide", where he prepares duck breast without vacumization.

    Funny thing Nico Ladenis mentions sous vide in his book[1984 or so], saying he doesnt like it and a Roux's are fanboys [they wanted to open a chain of restaurants with food prepared sous vide at one main kitchen and just reheated in restaurant on order, the concept never worked out.]

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    The term doesn't mean under vacuum.
    Might want to check a french dictionary

  6. #16
    Senior Member Deckhand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    The term doesn't mean under vacuum. Packing under vacuum eliminates air from packaging, which improves heat transfer, as water conducts heat better than air. Bags then drown, resulting in water surroundings.
    You can easily skip this by rolling produce in plastic wrap.
    Of course due to lack of oxygen
    I have info from Modernist Cuisine books, many different websites and other older books, and Thomas Kellers "Sous Vide", where he prepares duck breast without vacumization.

    Funny thing Nico Ladenis mentions sous vide in his book[1984 or so], saying he doesnt like it and a Roux's are fanboys [they wanted to open a chain of restaurants with food prepared sous vide at one main kitchen and just reheated in restaurant on order, the concept never worked out.]
    Thanks for your opinions. Interesting. I like the idea of vacuum infusion,less air floating the bag,and less concern about aerobic activity. I think it is a good system for steaks and steakhouses to cook to order with a sear before serving. I thought that was having success. I appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

  7. #17

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    No worries. Bacteria are a different subject, imfo aerobic are the least problem, if I could say so. Most of them is on the surface of the food, so when I prepare a pastrami or any kind of slow cooked meat actually I first have a bath at 80 degrees centigrade and I drown the meat for 1 minute [Boil water and mix with cold water to get around 80 degrees] to decontaminate the surface

    Now, the calpain [in newer [or more scientific] publication than Modernist Cuisine its pointed out that cathepsin have nothing to do with tenderization - its bound in lysosomes and theres no data suggesting that it is released after animals death] as an enzyme works best at 25 degrees centigrade [and pH 7.2-8.2]
    But I dont want to keep my meat [even under vacuum] within the 10-50 degrees range for over four hours, that is where the spores [as far as I remember spores is the product of bacteria like ecoli when stressed and are extremely difficult to get rid off?] of anaerobic bacteria are happiest.

    So after that time I finally have my last, actual cooking, phase.
    Or almost cause I like to sear the meat after cooking anyway

    But I cannot stress it enough, most crucial part for me is to keep hands clean, bags well sealed and disinfect working surfaces. And not to think "yeah yeah it supposed to be easy so I dont have to wash hands after scratching my arse"

    I think the concept is a little off...Maybe cause the passion is not there, where you have cooks actually just serving food.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Deckhand's Avatar
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    True true. In a restaurant setting the typical worker isn't infatuated with the concepts you were just discussing. I know I wasn't back when I was working in a restaurant. I love the type of information you are discussing. I used to read lots of threads over at Egullet. Lots of interesting info.

  9. #19
    Senior Member brainsausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deckhand View Post
    Thanks for your opinions. Interesting. I like the idea of vacuum infusion,less air floating the bag,and less concern about aerobic activity. I think it is a good system for steaks and steakhouses to cook to order with a sear before serving. I thought that was having success. I appreciate your thoughts on the subject.
    Cooking to order is unrealistic- unless people are willing to wait over an between 40-50 minutes for a steak, and thats if its a first course.
    Sous vide to temp( just below rare has always worked for me ), chill, and then searing/raising the temp from there is much more feasible. You've already tenderized and and gotten past that first bump of cooking, which is more efficient in terms of service, and doubly so as you're producing a 'better' product in less time.
    Controlled vaccum packaging is hot topic in the food service industry nowadays in terms of food safety. Some states are requiring a HACCP plan to utilize said techniques. I've come to realize, that once again, the smart have to suffer due to the ignorant.
    The AI does not love you, nor does it hate you, but you are made out of atoms it might find useful for something else. - Eliezer Yudkowsky

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainsausage View Post
    Cooking to order is unrealistic- unless people are willing to wait over an between 40-50 minutes for a steak, and thats if its a first course.
    Sous vide to temp( just below rare has always worked for me ), chill, and then searing/raising the temp from there is much more feasible. You've already tenderized and and gotten past that first bump of cooking, which is more efficient in terms of service, and doubly so as you're producing a 'better' product in less time.
    Controlled vaccum packaging is hot topic in the food service industry nowadays in terms of food safety. Some states are requiring a HACCP plan to utilize said techniques. I've come to realize, that once again, the smart have to suffer due to the ignorant.
    That's what he meant.

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