Moving out from parents, need new knives

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toyopl

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My and my wife are still young (under 30s) and we bought a new house to finally move out of my parents house, and of course this means we have to invest in everything including knives :)

I had my eye on Tojiro DP series, wanted a 8'' chef, pairing knife, utility knife and a bread slicer sometime after if I like the knives.
However I just recently found this forum and quick search came up with lots of replies about quality of the knife going gown and that they're prone to chipping, this worries me a bit.
Looking at online retailer, the 3pc set is $140 which I think is great price, but if I have to watch out how I cut, to not chip the the knife on chicken bone, I'd rather bump the budget up to a $300 and get a better quality.
I'm new to cooking, I love it, but as you can imagine I can't stretch my wing in my fathers kitchen :)
I'd prefer western handle, stainless steel or anything that wouldn't make me worry about rusting.
My father has 8'' Wusthof Classic Slicer that I enjoy cutting with, no proper Chef knife in this kitchen :)
Could use some help.
 
Congrats on the new house and welcome to the forum!

So let's get this started. A few more questions first - do you know how to sharpen? what kind of cutting motion do you use(push cut, rock, chop)? what kind of cutting board do you have?
 
Thank you,

I have never sharpened a knife in my life, nor do I know how to cut properly.
I recently started getting more into cooking and cutting, and I moved from pointing grip :) to a pinch grip, it actually feels pretty comfortable and I think I have more control with pinch grip.
No cutting board either, will have to invest in one after we move.
 
Welcome to the forum.
I just want to make a remark about the chipping issue you are talking about.
That comes from improper use of the knife mainly, for example you can't chop bones with a guyto.
I hope you are not coming with expectations of knives being tools that do not need any care, and that they will just work on their own. If that is the case you will be disappointed, if you are however into sharpening and cutting stuff , and like sharp edges then you are going to enjoy some high quality knives, like the rest of us.
 
I have been thinking this would be a good first knife to try: Tojiro DP Damascus 180mm Gyuto. It is short enough to fill the Chef knife and utility knife roles. It is also inexpensive. I would try something like this and get an idea for what your preferences are. Save the money from more knives and get a cutting board and a decent saute pan. And welcome!
 
Welcome! Get a boardsmith board a gyuto 210-240mm and a tojiro itk bread knife.
 
just buy Victorinox knives, and a decent wood board. really. unless you want to be like us. which you don't. because it would make the knives more expensive.
 
just buy Victorinox knives, and a decent wood board. really. unless you want to be like us. which you don't. because it would make the knives more expensive.

not just the knives, but everything that comes with maintaining them. I'm sure that the majority of us have at least $200 in sharpening equipment. anyways, I would agree with the posters above in that you'll want a nice end grain board (maple or similar), a gyuto, tojiro ITK bread knife, and maybe a cheap victorinox paring.

To keep the gyuto and paring sharp, you'll want to have some whetstones and something with which you can flatten them. For flattening, the DMT XXC would work great. For stones, I would go with either a king 1k/6k or a bester 1200 and a suehiro rika 5000. Let's estimate the cost of these to run from $120-180 depending on whether you get the combination stone or the bester and suehiro.

There are several really good gyuto options for beginners - the artifex from chef knives to go, fujiwara fkm, the aforementioned tojiro, hiromoto g3, and akifusa. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. These knives range in cost from $70 to $200.

Assuming you get the cheapest of the gyutos (the artifex), you'll still be paying for the sharpening equipment ($120), the tojiro ITK ($65), a victorinox paring ($5), artifex ($70) which comes out to be a whopping $260 and you'll still have to get the board which can run another $80-100.

If the price scares you a bit, get away from here as quickly as you can before you are afflicted with our addiction:tease:. There's nothing wrong with getting a nice wooden board, a kingstone and a set of victorinox knvies. If you learn to keep them sharp and maintain them, you'll have better knives than 90% of people out there.
 
As usual, we will overwhelm our new member with choices; that said, let me put in a good word for Togiharu. I'm playing with the Korin passaround, which is a G1, but the Inox line (stainless) at 210mm is only $120. For that price, Togiharu does very well in performance, fit and finish, profile, geometry, and balance.
 
not just the knives, but everything that comes with maintaining them. I'm sure that the majority of us have at least $200 in sharpening equipment. anyways, I would agree with the posters above in that you'll want a nice end grain board (maple or similar), a gyuto, tojiro ITK bread knife, and maybe a cheap victorinox paring.

To keep the gyuto and paring sharp, you'll want to have some whetstones and something with which you can flatten them. For flattening, the DMT XXC would work great. For stones, I would go with either a king 1k/6k or a bester 1200 and a suehiro rika 5000. Let's estimate the cost of these to run from $120-180 depending on whether you get the combination stone or the bester and suehiro.

There are several really good gyuto options for beginners - the artifex from chef knives to go, fujiwara fkm, the aforementioned tojiro, hiromoto g3, and akifusa. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. These knives range in cost from $70 to $200.

Assuming you get the cheapest of the gyutos (the artifex), you'll still be paying for the sharpening equipment ($120), the tojiro ITK ($65), a victorinox paring ($5), artifex ($70) which comes out to be a whopping $260 and you'll still have to get the board which can run another $80-100.

If the price scares you a bit, get away from here as quickly as you can before you are afflicted with our addiction:tease:. There's nothing wrong with getting a nice wooden board, a kingstone and a set of victorinox knvies. If you learn to keep them sharp and maintain them, you'll have better knives than 90% of people out there.

a king combo is a good idea.
 
As mainaman said, nicer knives actually require more care and skill. If I were you, I'd get a 210mm gyuto, a petty or paring knife (the difference is that paring knives are usually below 100mm), a Tojiro ITK bread knife.

You may want a honesuki if you cut a lot of chickens/things with bones. You can cut around bones with a petty or paring knife (which are also great for silverskin, ballotine, etc.), but for a knife that can take abuse, you want a tough honesuki. If you contact Jon at Japanese Knife Imports, he has one that I really like that's not listed on his site. It's $65 or so. I love mine for anything where I would feel nervous using a more delicate knife.

You have good recommendations for the gyuto, petty, and bread knife (get the Tojior ITK at Chef Knives To Go or at Cutlery and More, which I think is cheaper by just a few bucks). I'd go cheap if I were you and didn't want to turn this into a full blown hobby. As James said, you'll need a flattening plate for when your stones wear down from sharpening. Jon at JKI sells one. There's the DMT XXC. Or the Atoma 140 grit plate. I think I'd go with Jon's because of price and because I typically trust Jon when it comes to knife related things.
 
OK, my brain is steaming from information from you guys and from what I've been reading in the meantime.

So here's some more info, I like Tojiro Dp series, because you can match everything in that set, yes, I know I shouldn't say it, but matching the look is important to me, and I see that Fujiwara FKM doesn't offer pairing knife or Bread knife.
Also from reading here it seems that if I don't take Tojiro to hard things or glass cutting board then I should be fine with chipping issue ?
Maybe I would try the waterstone sharpening, I'm watching tutorials on chef knife to go website and it seems that if I would get a hang of it than I could get some decent results :)

may I ask one more question ?
How would the german knives like Wusthof Classic or Henckel Pro S compare to Tojiro DP series ?
 
the Tojiro is a Subaru WRX STI to the Wusthof Ford Ranger.
 
I agree the Tojiro is a great step up from the German stuff. But be prepared to outgrow it quickly. I had Wusthof Gran Prix and Henckel 4 Star stuff for years until I jumped into the j-knife rabbit hole. I got a Tojiro Nakiri and 240 Gyuto and it was all over for me. That said, now I am to the point that I am going to sell the Tojiros because it's time to upgrade. Since the Tojiros I have picked up an Artifex and a Miyabi 7000 MC, wow another order of magnitude up from the Tojiros for me and I have another awesome knife on it's way to me as we speak. (Thanks Dave!) :cool2:
 
Maybe I would try the waterstone sharpening, I'm watching tutorials on chef knife to go website and it seems that if I would get a hang of it than I could get some decent results :)

I think you may get better results by watching the videos on Jon's site...JKI.
:2cents:
 
It's up to you at the end of the day, but even within one series, different knife styles have different types of handles. Look at the bread knife Kanji and handle vs. the gyuto. Slightly different. Or their handles. So if you just get western handled knives, they'll look as much like a set as getting three Fujiwaras or three Tojiros. Anyways, up to you at the end of the day. The Tojiros seem well liked and the honesuki from that line is also well liked, so you could pick that up too if you do a lot of heavy/tough work (cutting through bones, etc.)
 
Alot of good info. on knives here & stones.Wooden boards are best for home use.I Use a 14x20"for veg. & fruits.A smaller 17x13" for protiens.Both boards are thin& lite not end grain.Got the larger Bamboo at Ross over 5 yrs. ago paid under 20.00.Still going strong after daily use has not warped.The smaller one is very lite wood fr. Japan got it at Japanese department store here,been using it over 3 yrs.

I like to wash my boards after use,a lite board is much easier to handle than a heavy end grain board.I put my boards out in the sun to dry.

Alot of knifenuts are aware of the fine edges on their blades & like endgrain as the best cutting board.They are more expensive & heavy a tradeoff.
 
I would buy Tojiro or any Japanese made knife anyday - all day over any Lamson made Artifex knife. There's more to making a knife correctly than stamping them out to look the part. I'm stating this based on how many re-works of these knives I've been doing in their short history vs how many reworks I've done on new Japanese knives in all the years I've been working on them. The American companies/makers have a LOT to learn still. I say spend your money wisely on proven performance.




Edit - No moritaka though :D
 
I would buy Tojiro or any Japanese made knife anyday - all day over any Lamson made Artifex knife. There's more to making a knife correctly than stamping them out to look the part. I'm stating this based on how many re-works of these knives I've been doing in their short history vs how many reworks I've done on new Japanese knives in all the years I've been working on them. The American companies/makers have a LOT to learn still. I say spend your money wisely on proven performance.
What do you have seen, Dave?
 
It's not a specific Artifex problem, it's a problem for all of the knives made by that maker. They've all got whacky profiles (made by machine and not tweaked by hand), they're thicker than need be, and fit and finish is no better than the cheapest Japanese variants.

And before someone accuses me of hating on a certain retailer here (well OK - I do hate them) but this isn't about that since they too sell (the comparable) low end Tojiro (and other Japanese) brands as well.
 
Oh and while I'm typing - do NOT go for their "finish sharpening" unless you're looking for a project to "finish" yourself. Pick anyone here and send it to them over accepting what their on staffers can do. I'm talking bad - REAL bad.
 
Ok, thank you all for the help.
I think I'm gonna stick with Tojiro DP series and give it a try.
I searched this forum, and what I see constantly reccomended to newbies as far as sharpening is Bester 1200, Suehiro Rika 5000 and DMT XXC.
So I think I'm gonna order the sharpening combo above, unless someone would have different thought.
 
Toyopl,All good choices,esp. the sharpening setup.With it all you need is some freehand skills.I recomm.Dave Martell's(The Art Of Knife Sharpening Basics)DVD.
 
I have no allegiances here but I will confirm that the 'finish sharpening' was not worth it. I bought a couple as gifts for family given the price and the steel. I had them finish sharpened to save myself some time--money wasted--My Edge Pro with Choseras puts an infinitely better edge than the one they arrived with. I do like the steel once it's properly sharpened (I know, jigs are for woosies) as it's stayed sharp with minimal maintainence for quite a while.

Just my $.02


Oh and while I'm typing - do NOT go for their "finish sharpening" unless you're looking for a project to "finish" yourself. Pick anyone here and send it to them over accepting what their on staffers can do. I'm talking bad - REAL bad.
 
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