ceramic rod bad rap

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Old Head
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For years the use of any rod or steel has been shunned within the forums.

I have a black Mac ceramic rod, and decided to put it to the test. Since my move down south I've been at the same CC. For the past four months I have used a Konosuke HD as my daily driver. It gets used frequently as I prep my grill/ saute station daily.

I haven't put it to the stones once. Not one single time since I started. I use the ceramic rod. Pretty much before use I run the knife down the rod, carefully. A few light, accurate passes is all it takes.

Four months and its still Sharp. Very Sharp. Infact its probably the sharpest knife in a kitchen of forty plus guys. I inspected my angle with a loupe, and its still straight and accute; no rounding.

I've questioned the frequency of sharpening before, and I am convinced with proper care, a non-abusive technique and light honing, a good edge can and should last a long while, even with daily use.

I'm sure many will disagree, and continue to put their expensive knives to the stones everyweek, but I am convinced, through my own experience, it's wasteful.
 
Chris, what grit would you say your rod is?
I have a ceramic probably around the 1200 range that I have used as my primary "sharpening device" over this super busy 2 month long holiday season. The season where I don't get a day or night off from mid October to the end of the year. AKA no time for stones.
I find a few passes on the rod followed by some stropping on the day's prep list or invoices is sufficient enough to carry me through most days. Granted that some of my blades are way different steel and HT wise, some require more love than others.....
...but I'm with you. I've become quite the sharpening minimalist lately. My knives' performance in a pro-high volume kitchen is still quite acceptable.

But when I get a day or two to myself, I'm going to swarfland fo sho.
 
I think its 2k. And, I'm in the same boat; busy season and having to sharpen on my own time = no sharpening.

Also agreed with different steel = different technique. Last year I went months without sharpening a moritaka gyuto, and used only a strop....
 
It's like stropping on a 2000 grit ceramic stone.
 
There are a couple of angles here: technique and abrasion vs realignment. Ceramic rods or basically the same as stones. They simply require different technique. The harder the steel, the more careful you need to be to avoid chipping. Like Theory said, it's is the same as using a 1-2k stone. Smooth rods are meant to do nothing more than realign edges. In this case, softer steels can benefit but harder steels will tend to degrade by microchipping so there won't be anything to realign. Furthermore, smooth steel rods (64 ish hrc) will tend to be scratched by hard knife steel. Grooved steel rods are meant to realign and to shear away weakened steel. These rods will give a perpetually uneven, jagged, coarse edge that is effective but unrefined and again, this is only for softer blades. The KonHD at 60-61 hrc is not super hard nor is it particularly soft so it should respond well to abrasion (ceramic rod) and moderately well to smooth rods. The grooved steels are pretty much only for people that don't have the luxury of using refined edges and harder blades.
 
+1 on the ceramic rod. I keep one in my kit and use it every day. Just a very delicate touch keeps my knives going nicely and when the rod starts to become a bit less effective, I take the blades to a diamond paste coated MDF strop which brings them back to the fresh from the stone stage. Between the rod and the diamond paste, I can really stretch out the time between sessions on the stones.
 
I have the Mac rod but I use it the odd time, but not that much. I find it works but fairly quickly it becomes a vicious circle where the edge it gives doesn't seem to last so I end up using it more and more. For one of my Niolox knives it work much better than stropping but I generally only use the rod when I am lazy
 
So, another newb question here, I recently got my CN and am enjoying it, but due to my sharpening technique on stones being lackluster (altho I am practicing all the time on my crap knives) is finding a good high grit ceramic honing rod or stroping the most effective way to diminish the frequency of using a stone. This is for home use only, as I am not a pro chef.
 
So, another newb question here, I recently got my CN and am enjoying it, but due to my sharpening technique on stones being lackluster (altho I am practicing all the time on my crap knives) is finding a good high grit ceramic honing rod or stroping the most effective way to diminish the frequency of using a stone. This is for home use only, as I am not a pro chef.

There is no magic to a rod. Regardless of whether you use a rod or a stone, you must develop technique. Lousy technique on a rod will not produce good results.

A rod is just more convenient if you are a pro and don't have space for a stone.
 
oh i know, i have been using a rod in the past on my crap knives with some success, just SS box store ones. I feel that my technique is better on a rod than a stone right now, altho I am working on that
 
Personally I find I keep more consistent angles on stones--maybe because of having more surface contact area. I think most people tend not to use a steel (rod) properly.
:2cents:
 
Most of the guys in my kitchen use steels in a very sloppy quick style, reminiscent of what we've all seen on TV. I use very soft deliberate strokes, and keep focused on my angle....works well for me.

Definitely not a fresh from the stone edge, but gets it to 90% I'd say...
 
Most of the guys in my kitchen use steels in a very sloppy quick style, reminiscent of what we've all seen on TV. I use very soft deliberate strokes, and keep focused on my angle....l.

most chefs ive seen use something horribly similar to this.. http://m.videojug.com/film/sharpening-a-knife-with-a-steel which i cringe at, if they are going to do that i usually suggest to them putting their thumb on the other side next to their finger on the steel as ive seen someone cut into their knuckle.

if i steel i hold mine vertically and pointing down, either onto the board or standing back from the bench, and not too fast or not too slow but at a speed where i can keep the same angle, i try and keep it as flat as possible, roughly 16°

Whats Everyones steel method?
 
I lay it down because that's where I can recognize the angle...like putting it on a stone, angle depends on the knife. I prefer a stone or strop though for American and J-knives and usually only steel my French carbons and German stainless.
 
i dont use a rod anymore but when i did i had the mac rod. i definitely rested the tip on the table and used slow even strokes. not violent, lightning fast, "gordon ramsay" strokes! check out his youtube vid, its pretty comical.
 
I bought a Ruby rod, here recently. It seems quite smooth, but it does cut more steel off than I am accustomed to. Pretty much I use it now for stropping very lightly, if at all. If I go to much on it I can see with a naked eye a wire edge forming really fast.
 
I just don't think any sort of rod is necessary with the kind of knives many of us have. Not only that, but part of owning these knives is maintaining them on the stones and getting the most out of them...the way they are intended to be used.
 
I just don't think any sort of rod is necessary with the kind of knives many of us have. Not only that, but part of owning these knives is maintaining them on the stones and getting the most out of them...the way they are intended to be used.
+1
 
I just don't think any sort of rod is necessary with the kind of knives many of us have. Not only that, but part of owning these knives is maintaining them on the stones and getting the most out of them...the way they are intended to be used.

I fully admit to times when I don't maintain my knives as I should. Family, illness, work and other life circumstances often arise. If during these times I can't sharpen, then I strop. If stropping doesn't do it, I use the borosilicate hone. If that doesn't work, I use my ceramic 1200 grit idahnone. When life and knives catch up again -- I hit the stones and make things good again.

k.
 
I can understand that, but at the same time, I can raise a burr and put a good edge on just about any carbon knife with a Gesshin 2k in literally 2-3 minutes.
 
I can understand that, but at the same time, I can raise a burr and put a good edge on just about any carbon knife with a Gesshin 2k in literally 2-3 minutes.

Without a doubt you are correct...but bringing out the stones, soaking, and putting stuff away takes way longer and the wife hates me doing it in the kitchen. When I perma-soak them in the garage in the summer though it is no problem. It's all quick then -- but summer is only so long ;)

k.
 
I dont have a rod, but I see where Chris is comming from. For me, when I say sharpening, I seldom go through a full grit progression. Usually I just make a few edge leading passes on either my Gesshin 5, or my Kityama followed by a cn strop. Its really only when I damage the edge, or get a new knife that I drop down below 2k.
 
I can understand that, but at the same time, I can raise a burr and put a good edge on just about any carbon knife with a Gesshin 2k in literally 2-3 minutes.

During the middle of 100lbs of onions for French onion soup it's simply a matter of convenience to swipe two times on the rod vs setting up my stone and strop at work. I can and will do that too when time and situation allows. The rod still has a place in the kitchen though.
 
I'm really not sure about this one. Like many of you I used to go to the ceramic rod (DMT superfine) inbetween stone spa treatments but then I heard about rods not being quite good for jknives and, through trial and error (and a good dose of laziness :) ) I realized that a few stropping moves over my dry 5k stone do a pretty decent job to keep a good edge. Yeah, it tends to make the stone surface rather "slippery" or "glassy" on the long run but then when the next proper stone session occurs it's just a matter of reconditioning it as you would when flattening.Again, I'm a newbie and prob this is wrong by proper standards but it seems to work...
 
Totally agree almost all steel use in production kitchens often over time does more harm than good.Angle of spine is important,a lite sweep,not bearing down on the rod.I have found through trail & ERROR,that for me smooth polishing steels & smooth ceramics used correctly will prolong long cutting sessions until you can get to the stones again.

Smooth steels & ceramics do have a place in the kitchen IF used correctly,rarely the case.Diamond steels are popular now,I have seen cooks wailing away on diamond steels at a high angle,trying to cut in a new edge,it always ends in failure.
 
I must also admit ive never owned a steel, but used to use other chefs, for awhile i was honing on the underside of ceramic/porcelain plates, it works quite well, just place it on a damp towel, gets a few weird looks from other chefs though.

I always take my stones to work and am on the clock when i get the stones out for a session, soak them while i start the days prep/getting organised for the day, give them a touch up on 4k, have been de burring on cardboard lately.
 
I have a Mac rod and an Idhone ceramic. I like the Mac better and use it to keep[ my edges in line when I'm to busy to break out the stones. Seems to be a common theme for a lot of us. I like to sharpen I find it very relaxing, but don't always have the time.
 
I used to back strop on my higher grit shaptons. Now, where I'm at, its never actually been said we can't sharpen on stones during working hours. I just don't want to be the guy to find out...

The bad thing about Country Clubs is theres different departments. And when you're caught up and would usually pull out the stones, there is sure to be another department that's in the $hit$, and needs help. The work is seemingly never ending. Of course I'm that guy that busts my butt to get set up(fine dining grill/ saute), and will immediately volunteer my services(usually to the banquet department). While others will chop parsley endlessly, until our first ticket is in....
 
steel on ceramic rod, then strop on cardboard - quickest and easiest daily maintenance until next sharpening session which in pro kitchen seems an eternity because i never have the time nor the energy. you all know what i'm talking about, when you actually do have time, all you want to do is get everything done quick so that you can go home early or get out to the bars faster.
 
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