Quantcast
One wa-gyuto to rule them all - Page 4
+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 46

Thread: One wa-gyuto to rule them all

  1. #31

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    1,297
    Okay, guys, I am new at this so help me to understand something. As best as I can tell, "honyaki" roughly translates to "true forged" or in knifemaker speak "mono steel" Is that correct? I also read that honyaki knives are considered more difficult to make and sell for considerably more that their Japanese forge welded laminate cousins. As a western knifemalker, i am wondering whats up with that? In my world, ANYTHING that has been forge welded is generally considered to be more complex and as such, mor e expensive regardless of whether or not it has 2 layers or 22,000. So does this mean that I can charge a LOT more for W2, 52100 or Cru Forge blades if I call them honyaki?

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    354
    Honyaki often means mizu honyaki, i.e. water quenched and the blade is differentially hardened and has a hamon.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    1,297
    Yeah, I saw that too. Still raises the same question. When I make a W2 blade with a hamon, any extra cost, which the "market" says cannot be a whole lot, comes from the cost of extra hand finishing. Forge welded or even laminated blades like San Mai would still ALWAYS cost more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rottman View Post
    Honyaki often means mizu honyaki, i.e. water quenched and the blade is differentially hardened and has a hamon.

  4. #34
    Sponsors
    JBroida's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Beverly Hills, CA
    Posts
    4,049
    Quote Originally Posted by Rottman View Post
    Honyaki often means mizu honyaki, i.e. water quenched and the blade is differentially hardened and has a hamon.
    actually, i would venture to say the majority are oil quenched

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    354
    Might be. Many Japanese makers harden honyaki knives to the upper limit of the steel (hrc 64-65) and it is often mentioned that they have a loss of 50% (which I don't really buy) due to pure water quenching and bent blades. Together with the extra finishing and the aura of them being the crown of knifemaking by master smiths the honyaki prices are justified.

  6. #36
    Senior Member mpukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Gyptuckey, CO
    Posts
    797
    Quote Originally Posted by ******* View Post
    Okay, guys, I am new at this so help me to understand something...
    some light reading...
    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/sh...hlight=honyaki
    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/sh...hlight=honyaki
    Shibui - simplicity devoid of unnecessary elements

  7. #37

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    1,297
    Mpukas, i understand the difference. It's just that it is completely counterintuitive to anything that I have ever done. In my western world, monosteel knives are easier. But them again, I would NEVER hammer on a cold blade, so it does show how much difference there is between the traditional 16th and 17th Century Japanese techniques and my ultra modern state of the art 19th and early 20th Century techniques. I was also surp[ised to learn that while a lot of the tradtionally made japanes knives are forged to thickness and taper, they are not forged to shape.

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Petersburg, FL
    Posts
    1,297
    If wonder if HOW they harden the steel is risky? You and I know that we can harden stuff like some of Achim's "special" carbon steel or 52100 to those levels with little or no risk if we have the right gear. I can get W2 pretty close to that out of a Paragon oven and Parks 50, no salt or water quench needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rottman View Post
    Might be. Many Japanese makers harden honyaki knives to the upper limit of the steel (hrc 64-65) and it is often mentioned that they have a loss of 50% (which I don't really buy) due to pure water quenching and bent blades. Together with the extra finishing and the aura of them being the crown of knifemaking by master smiths the honyaki prices are justified.

  9. #39

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    354
    I think most of these stories of bent and unfixable blades relate to single bevel knives where a two layer blade is way easier to fix than a bent monosteel. The whole water quench thing is tradition I guess but as Jon says oil is also (more?) commonly used.

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Alps, Austria, Europe
    Posts
    414
    i believe (not 100% sure yet) that marko has talked me into one of his gyutos!

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts