Gyuto recommendations for thinning and polishing practice

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ile74

Active Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2022
Messages
40
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Location
Finland
I'm looking affordable gyuto for thinning and polishing practice. It could be migaki or kurouchi finished, but no deep low spots because I want to turn it stone polished full-convex kasumi finished. So basically it should be medium workhorse, good heat treatment, blue2 or white2, iron clad and basic finish without deep low spots or any other flaws and have potential for project knife.


LOCATION
What country are you in?
Finland

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
Lefty

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Wa handle.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
240 mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No. Carbon steel and iron clad required, B2, W2, B1 or W1.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
300 €

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
General home kitchen use. I want to practice thinning and turn it versatile cutter - thin tip area, medium heel, good convex and food release.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Mazaki 240 gyuto, Toyama 240 gyuto, Takamura 210 R2 guyto, Konosuke GS+ 240

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push cut for vegetables, slicing for proteins.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Practice knife. Medium workhorse with some steel and iron to thin, good heat treatment, no major flaws or low spots beyond repairing.

Better aesthetics
Basic aesthetics, I would like turn it nicer than new.

Comfort
No special requirements.

Ease of Use and Care
Carbon steel and iron clad required.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Basic blue or white steel with good heat treatment.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Hasegawa cutting board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
-

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, but already have synthetic stones from #100 to #10 000.
 
Without low spots is a big ask for a knife that’s not previously put to stones. A hatsukukoro yoake will give you plenty of material to work with, and in the end could be a very enjoyable knife. Unpolished munetoshi is also a good candidate from jns, but may be just outside your budget. Morihei hisamoto would be my third choice.
 
Stone polish full convex - a fellow psychopath I see

You won’t find anything without low spots. You want something with a little meat on the bone sure, but avoid anything with heavy taper. taper is never linear and symmetric and grinding to account for that is not something for your first rodeo.

Maybe this?
https://carbonknifeco.com/collectio...chi-white-2-kasumi-gyuto-240mm-ho-wood-handle
Best option probably something from BST

But anyways mid weight Sakai stuff is the answer.

Full kasumi convex is not a casual project…
 
JCK also has some cheap rusty white 2's with kasumi finish in their house-brand lines. Probably the cheapest Sakai option if you want to go down that road.

https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/fu-rin-ka-zan-white-steel-no-2-wa-series

But I'd just go to town on the Mazaki you already have?
Mazaki’s tend to have a slight hollow above the soft shinogi and a very aggressive nonlinear taper coming out of the handle. Doing a stone set geometry and polish on one sounds like my idea of a bad time
 
Mazaki’s tend to have a slight hollow above the soft shinogi and a very aggressive nonlinear taper coming out of the handle. Doing a stone set geometry and polish on one sounds like my idea of a bad time
Yeah all the migaki Mazaki’s I’ve come across had a hollow on the hira, wouldn’t recommend
 
Without low spots is a big ask for a knife that’s not previously put to stones. A hatsukukoro yoake will give you plenty of material to work with, and in the end could be a very enjoyable knife. Unpolished munetoshi is also a good candidate from jns, but may be just outside your budget. Morihei hisamoto would be my third choice.
Shallow low spots are not problem. Actually I have already converted my first Japanese knife (Muneishi 210 kurouchi gyuto), but there was huge and deep low spot on kanji area. If I want to grind it away, I'll lose the kanji totally so that's bit too much.

I have Hatsukokoro Yoake 240 kurouchi and migaki. They are quite good knives, but I don't see much thinning and shaping potential as they are already grinded very thin and hollow.


I have eyed Munetoshi and that is totally acceptable. Thank you for suggesting Morihei Hisamoto.
 
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If you already have the Maz doesn't that tick all your boxes?
Thanks, I think Mazaki need a bit thinning, but I like Mazaki as it is and don't want to convert it to totally different knife.


Stone polish full convex - a fellow psychopath I see

You won’t find anything without low spots. You want something with a little meat on the bone sure, but avoid anything with heavy taper. taper is never linear and symmetric and grinding to account for that is not something for your first rodeo.

Maybe this?
https://carbonknifeco.com/collectio...chi-white-2-kasumi-gyuto-240mm-ho-wood-handle
Best option probably something from BST

But anyways mid weight Sakai stuff is the answer.

Full kasumi convex is not a casual project…
Thank you, I have been eyeing Rikichi Gorobei, but its finish is too good and ready. I need more rustic, robust and unfinished. Something from Knife Japan?

I have considered BST as I don't need BNIB and in this case I'm not picky byuer. If EU members have surplus 240 project gyuoto, please PM me.

About full kasumi convex project, I may be too grandiose :)
 
Thanks, I think Mazaki need a bit thinning, but I like Mazaki as it is and don't want to convert it to totally different knife.



Thank you, I have been eyeing Rikichi Gorobei, but its finish is too good and ready. I need more rustic, robust and unfinished. Something from Knife Japan?

I have considered BST as I don't need BNIB and in this case I'm not picky byuer. If EU members have surplus 240 project gyuoto, please PM me.

About full kasumi convex project, I may be too grandiose :)
Starting with something nice is a still a lot to bite off. Starting with something KU or very rustic is a recipe for disappointment IMO.

Browse BST for something nice but used that strikes your fancy and go from there I think
 
For a practice knife, I would go to Knife Japan and pick a steel, shape and size. The cheaper the knife, the more rustic and the more tuning left for you to do. You will have a fun practice knife for not a lot of money. When you have more skill and confidence, you can progress to a higher end knife.
 
Starting with something nice is a still a lot to bite off. Starting with something KU or very rustic is a recipe for disappointment IMO.
That's what I'm thinking with Rikichi Gorobei. I can improve it more easily if base is good. But I'm still surprised for the thinned and finished result with originally very rustic kurouchi muneishi gyuoto, which was my first J-knife from 2019. To me it's now far better cutter and quite nice finish also. That's my incentive to dive deeper to rabbot hole.

Browse BST for something nice but used that strikes your fancy and go from there I think
That is good option, thanks.
 
Bad advice IMO. With a better knife you can follow the grind more and you will have less chance of a complicated warp / twist to deal with. The more rustic the go the better your skills need to be to get a half decent result. While I wouldn’t suggest running out and buying the fanciest thing money can buy, as a rustic knife lover, something a notch higher than the knife Japan stuff will make this project much less mind numbing
 
Bad advice IMO. With a better knife you can follow the grind more and you will have less chance of a complicated warp / twist to deal with. The more rustic the go the better your skills need to be to get a half decent result. While I wouldn’t suggest running out and buying the fanciest thing money can buy, as a rustic knife lover, something a notch higher than the knife Japan stuff will make this project much less mind numbing

I will defer to someone with a lot more skill and knowledge than I.
 
With a better knife you can follow the grind more and you will have less chance of a complicated warp / twist to deal with.
That's what I'm thinking. If we discuss Rikichi Gorobei, does it need thinning at all? What stone grit you put it out of the box? I think i doesn't need other than polishing. No need to put it #180 Suehiro Debado.


The more rustic the go the better your skills need to be to get a half decent result.
As a home chef I don't even notice all the details, but my thinned Muneishi gyuto tip is killer at onions and carrots cut quietly, food release is also good. That's decent for me as the finish is also pleasing. Only thing I really fear and I'm not comfortable are single bevels and especially usuba. Don't ask how I know :)
While I wouldn’t suggest running out and buying the fanciest thing money can buy, as a rustic knife lover, something a notch higher than the knife Japan stuff will make this project much less mind numbing
I have some fancy knives and don't want to ruin them. So your advice is sound. And rustic knife have to had acceptable base. I don't try to be professional knife repairer.
 
Will a Tetsujin kasumi be a good option? I had the thought of working on mine, but was a bit scared.
Actually my grandiose idea was to turn basic rustic knife to look like something like Tetsujin kasumi or Fujiyama Kaiju 😁
 
I can’t recommend a specific knife, but definitely look at Knife Japan and email Michael the owner (super nice and helpful guy). He has very reasonable knives that are perfect for learning. All from local villages and not your mainstream stuff. Maybe not as fancy or well finished, consistency maybe not as uniform, but great knives and much cheaper than many other retailers.

https://knifejapan.com/knife-types/gyuto/?sort=priceasc
 
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I'd say get a Zakuri. Rustic knife that's a bit thicker behind the edge. Good for sanding choil and spine / thinning / polishing / rehandling.
And it doesn't brake the bank :)
 
I don't have a specific knife to recommend. I don't polish but I have played around with it and I do thin.

My general advice would be to target an iron clad knife to start. Stainless cladding just adds to the complications, especially starting out.

If you've never laid a blade flat on a coarser stone and rubbed it back it and forth, it can be quite shocking the first time. There's a lot of deviation that shows up that your eye doesn't see until you have the contrast.
 
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I don't have a specific knife to recommend. I don't polish but I have played around with it and I do thin.

My general advice would be to target an iron clad knife to start. Stainless cladding just adds to the complications, especially starting out.

If you've never laid a blade flat on a coarser stone and rubbed it back it and forth, it can be quite shocking the first time. There's a lot of deviation that shows up that your eye doesn't see until you have the contrast.
Seeing that super crisp shinogi melt into a wavy line in front of your very eyes for the first time and realising you’re now in for the long haul is certainly a formative moment.
 
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