Vintage Americans

[Heckel7302]

I recently picked up a couple of vintage American knives and wonder if anyone knows more about them.

The first is a 12" Lamson. The handle is marked 6766. This one was in pretty rough shape with a 2+mm chip in the middle. It was my first major reprofile and I think it came out really well. The knife has an incredible distal taper that extends all the way to the edge. At the bolster it's 4.5mm at the spine and 0.8 BTE and behind the tip it's 0.6 at the spine and 0.2 BTE. Super consistent all the way down. It's like a hefty workhorse in the back and thin laser at the front. Best of both worlds. I'll probably thin it out a bit more down the line, but I'm going to leave the pitting along the top. Sort of reminds me of a nashiji finish and gives it character. My guess is that it's mid-century, but no idea. I've seen pics of another one with 6766 stamped in the handle, which I'm sure is the model number, but no other info. I emailed Lamson but of course, crickets. Pics below.

The next is a little guy stamped J. Ward & Co. Riverside, Mass. I could find basically no info on this company other than they were in business in between 1850 and 1870 and that one of Lincoln's prize possessions was a pocket knife made by them. I'm really curious to know any other info about the company. I'm not really sure what this knife is supposed to be. The eBay seller listed it as a steak knife, but that doesn't seem right to me. I've been using is like a little sheep's foot paring knife and it's been doing great at that. Blade is 2.75 inches. I'm guessing that it's pre-1900 given the rustic, hand made nature of the handle.

Thanks for looking, and any info, especially on the J. Ward, would be most appreciated.

Lamson before and chip detail

J. Ward before

 

[daveb]

That looks like the much revered saber tooth Lamson, not sure what years it was produced.

In all seriousness the parer looks sweet. Nothing to offer about it.

 

[Heckel7302]

Thanks, Dave.

Saber Tooth Lamson. That’s new to me. Was that a product name or something?

The parer is really cool. I just love thinking about the history behind it. Practically it’s not that great. I’m having a hard time putting a good edge on it. Decent, but not great.

 

[Noodle Soup]

J. Ward is a mystery company but it was connected to John Russell. Their catalog from the 1880's contained both blade stamps. Some feel that Ward was a less expensive line but no one seems to know for sure. I have a small J. Ward butcher knife I really value as something from the frontier period.

 

[crockerculinary]

My guess is the paring was a table knife that was maybe damaged and someone cut down. I’ve seen a lot of forks and spoons and table knives with similar handles. I don’t recall if some were that pattern exactly, but I think I’ve seen that before.

 

[Heckel7302]

J. Ward is a mystery company but it was connected to John Russell. Their catalog from the 1880's contained both blade stamps. Some feel that Ward was a less expensive line but no one seems to know for sure. I have a small J. Ward butcher knife I really value as something from the frontier period.

Thanks! That’s great to know. Do you if J. Ward Riverside Mass is in any way related to J. Ward Bronxville NY?

 

[Noodle Soup]

Thanks! That’s great to know. Do you if J. Ward Riverside Mass is in any way related to J. Ward Bronxville NY?

Sorry can't answer that one. J. Ward may have been a separate company that Russell acquired at some point though.

 

[McMan]

I like that little J Ward! The decoration is poured pewter, and a version of the acorn motif that was popular mid to late 1800s. I agree, looks like a longer knife that was ground down. Longshot--could be some sort of crafts knife, as they had all sorts of different specialized crafts knives in the 1800s.

 

[Benuser]

That Lamson looks very much as the very best European knives of its time, say a Henckels 102. It came out very nicely, congratulations!

 

[Ericfg]

version of the acorn motif that was popular mid to late 1800s.

Yeah, I've seen a relatively large amount of them in my searches recently.

Nice job on that Lamson OP! Looks like you didn't have to shorten it much. It does have that 'Euro' look to it. The early Dexters were/are the same way.

 

[Heckel7302]

Nice job on that Lamson OP! Looks like you didn't have to shorten it much. It does have that 'Euro' look to it. The early Dexters were/are the same way.

Thanks. Since the tip was so rounded I didn’t have to shorten it at all. I took off material along the whole blade road, but with a bias toward the front half to bring the tip up a bit and emphasize the old French profile, then ground the spine a bit to bring the tip down and make it pointy.

it’s really fun to use. I don’t think the steel quality is quite as good as my vintage Sab 4*. It doesn’t have the same kind of ‘ring’ sound. It sure took a great edge though. Time will tell how well it will hold it.

I’ve currently got bids on some old Henckels and Forgecraft and another Sab. I want to try them all! These vintage knives are almost as addictive as the Japanese knives! At least the price points are a lot friendlier.

 

[Benuser]

Please be aware that the steel quality can be very different among the Sabs, even from the same maker and more or less the same period. The best ones were from German (or, more rarely Sheffield) steel, both from Swedish ore. Sometimes, depending on the vagaries of war and peace, local sources were used.

 

[Heckel7302]

Please be aware that the steel quality can be very different among the Sabs, even from the same maker and more or less the same period. The best ones were from German (or, more rarely Sheffield) steel, both from Swedish ore. Sometimes, depending on the vagaries of war and peace, local sources were used.

I guess that’s reason enough to keep buying more of them to see for myself.

 

[cotedupy]

Afraid I can’t be of any help either, but just to say - seriously good job you’ve done on both. They look superb!

 

[Benuser]

Nice job on that Lamson OP! Looks like you didn't have to shorten it much. It does have that 'Euro' look to it. The early Dexters were/are the same way.

I'm not familiar with American vintages. My first impression was indeed, it looks like a Henckels from 1920. What is it, that makes it look European in American eyes?

 

[Heckel7302]

I'm not familiar with American vintages. My first impression was indeed, it looks like a Henckels from 1920. What is it, that makes it look European in American eyes?

My guess is the more triangular profile with less belly and the thin bolster.

 

[Benuser]

Thanks!

 

[Ericfg]

These vintage knives are almost as addictive as the Japanese knives!

Shhhhhh bro. Shush.

 

[Heckel7302]

Shhhhhh bro. Shush.

I know, I know. Next thing you know vintage Forgecrafts are going to be up at KS prices. good thing I just scored a couple for dirt cheap.

 

[Ericfg]

I'm not familiar with American vintages. My first impression was indeed, it looks like a Henckels from 1920. What is it, that makes it look European in American eyes?

That thin, oval, full bolster. The three rivets. The full tang. The rectangular-ish wood handle. The 'bird's head' rear of the handle. I'd guess the steel was very similar as well; it certainly looks the same after 100 years. Plus, the stamping of the logo, and then the logos themselves were just a variation on a theme.

 

[Heckel7302]

Just in case anyone is interested, I finally heard back from Lamson on the knife stamped 6766. This is what they said:

"My apologies about the wait! I had to go through a bunch of old catalogs, but I believe I found your knife!
In our March 1931 “Household Cutlery” catalog item 6766 is under “French Sabatiers”.
This is a Rosewood handled forged knife with three large rivets and is made of carbon steel. It was available in 8”, 10”, 12”, & 14”.
I wish I had more info for you, but that was all I could find! I believe that this knife was manufactured between the late 1920s to the mid 1940s. That is the last I saw it appear in a catalog."

Earlier than I thought! Pre-war for the win!

 

[Heckel7302]

That looks like the much revered saber tooth Lamson, not sure what years it was produced.

I’m now guessing that Dave might have meant Sabatier Lamson but got autocorrected, and indeed it is!