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1 MILLION layer damascus billet!

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HHH Knives

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Jr came in from the shop today with a strange sort of crazy look in his eye. mumbling something about making a MILLION LAYER damascus billet!

After talking to him about it for a few minutes I quickly realized, I was not going to be able to talk him out of it.. So I said, Go for it!!!

The quest for a Million layers begins! Go Jr. Go!!

Has anyone seen a million layer billet of damascus? I imagine some of the *** swords are over a million layers.

Just thought this would be interesting to share. what do ya think?
 

PierreRodrigue

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Interesting, will there be any pattern left to see? Is he starting with thick stock?
 

HHH Knives

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Hers starting with a 25 layer stack.. and going from there! Hes at 500 layers now. and the count will really start jumping up from here! I dont know what the pattern will look like, I imagine its gona look like a bar of 1095 with a little more shimmer! LMAO!

But the edge will be ridiculous!!!
 

Candlejack

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I demand lots of pictures, how long time has it taken? (When he's done that is!)
 

HHH Knives

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Nice!! :) OK so hes at 500 layers now and I have not taken a single picture yet! lol I better break out the camera for this.

If he keeps on working at this pace and everything goes well, It wont be long, Maybe a couple days!
 

HHH Knives

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Had to unload a couple hundred pics from the camera.. But have started taking a few pics of the process! :) Hang in there it wont be long now and Ill have some pics posted!!
 

Chef Niloc

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Wouldn't you loose a lot of steel with that many folds?
I'm assuming random pattern:biggrin:
At that amount of folds I would think the two steels chemistry would almost become indiscriminate on a molecular level.
 

mainaman

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I think traditionally Japanese swords are done with 16 folds, which means 65536 layers.
All you need to do is fold 20 times and you get the 1 million layers
if you fold 32 times you get 4 billion + layers
 

HHH Knives

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Stacked up for the 500 layer weld.



Heating the billet to welding temp.


setting the weld


Cleaning up the stick welds from the billet B4 drawing it out. Its now500 layers.



Drawing out the steel



500 layers


Cut and restacked, now hes gona repeat the process this weld will be 2000 layers!
 

HHH Knives

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I think traditionally Japanese swords are done with 16 folds, which means 65536 layers.
All you need to do is fold 20 times and you get the 1 million layers
if you fold 32 times you get 4 billion + layers
As you can see, Jr's process is a bit different then the way you may of been thinking, with folds. He builds his layer count up by drawing the bar and cutting it into multiple pieces. Then cleaning them and re stacking and then setting another weld. There are no actual folds in his process. :D

His method works for him and I figure if it aint broke why try and fix it.. by asking him to do it different.
 

bcrano

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All the math in this post is making me sea sick. The pics are a good antidote...
 

HHH Knives

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Wouldn't you loose a lot of steel with that many folds?
I'm assuming random pattern:biggrin:
At that amount of folds I would think the two steels chemistry would almost become indiscriminate on a molecular level.
Yep, random pattern!! Im not sure about the molecular level. but I do know that its gona be some TIGHT patterning!
 

SpikeC

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I have the Dragonslayers right now, do you know how many layers are in them? As far as patterns go, much farther than these and the results are going to be more for something other that looks!
 

Candlejack

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So i'm assuming any knife you make of this is going to be ****-awful expensive.
So i shouldn't be here, i'll just go cry myself to bed.
 

Eamon Burke

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Quick side note. I was told by Adam DesRosiers that one of the reasons Japanese sword smiths would fold and forge over and over and over is that if there are any air pockets in the steel, they would either be compressed out or stretched the full length of the sword, rendering them tiny, even and inconsequential. You think there is a real advantage to doing this over the way that Rand Jr does it?

BTW tell Jr not to rush it! I know how tasks like this can be. Gets old after a while, you start to go cross eyed.
 

HHH Knives

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LOL, Jr just came in and said 32009 layers.. after this weld. :) Hes quickly approaching a MILLION! Faster then I thought it would be. The 9 layers were added for s little extra contrast and to add a little more steel to the mix so we can have enough material when he reached 1,000,000 layers to make a Suji or a gyuto..
 

Eamon Burke

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So two more 4x welds and and one 2x weld and he's at a million, right?
 

Rottman

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Quick side note. I was told by Adam DesRosiers that one of the reasons Japanese sword smiths would fold and forge over and over and over is that if there are any air pockets in the steel, they would either be compressed out or stretched the full length of the sword, rendering them tiny, even and inconsequential.
I thought the main reason was to get an even distribution of the impurities of the tamahagane...
 

HHH Knives

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So two more 4x welds and and one 2x weld and he's at a million, right?
Jr says.... YEP! :D

32009 X 4 = 128036, X 4 = 512144, X 2 = 1024288 to be exact!! :)


And he said hes finishing it TONIGHT! The kids on a mission.. or crazy.. lolol Thanks guys for looking, Im uploading more pics. now..
 

HHH Knives

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were talking about having a live feed camera in the shop so I dont have to take as many pictures and you Knife Nuts can watch all the action as it happens!! Hmm that may be cool no?
 

Crothcipt

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I was reading on the american blade smith's page a few weeks ago they were saying that over 500 is to fine to see.

Optimal for pattern development in straight
laminated billets is between 300 to 500 layers. Going the next step to 1,000 layers makes the
pattern too fine and staying under 300 it appears wide and bold.

posted by Don Fogg. After reading that I was wondering what something like what you are doing was going to look like. Thank you for not making me take forging lessons to see. Love the pics you 2 have posted on other threads. God has defiantly given you a great imagination that you have shared with your son, and I am very glad you 2 have shared it with others.
 

PierreRodrigue

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Your boy is mad! lol!! Man I'd love to be in on a marathon forging session! Good for him! Be proud dad!
 
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