Recipe Requested ~12 day Pastrami brine

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It's my understanding that you must first make, (or buy), corned beef. Then desalinate it and apply a pastrami rub and either bake it or smoke it.

Here's how to make corned beef:

Our Homemade Corned Beef Recipe Outshines Store Bought BTW - improperly cured corned beef can be dangerous.

If ya are still with me, here's a recipe for pastrami:

A Smoked Pastrami Recipe That's Close To Katz's

I am curious as to why you want to go so long on the cure. The length of time is dependent on the thickness of your meat. 3.5" thick beef takes about 15 days, but the longer the cure, the greater the chance of the meat going bad due to contaminants.
 
I'm not 100% sure I'd trust a pastrami recipe that tells you to buy a store bought corned beef...

I got a little curious, I found this article about Katz's (although I prefer Second Ave Deli...) who cures pastrami for 2 weeks:

https://www.seriouseats.com/how-katz-deli-makes-their-best-pastrami
the recipe they attached was only four days though.

I know both restaurants have their own books, maybe look there? The second ave deli one is more of a cookbook, Katz's more like marketing fluff (hence my preference!)

Good luck, good pastrami is hard to find, even around here!
 
I am curious as to why you want to go so long on the cure. The length of time is dependent on the thickness of your meat. 3.5" thick beef takes about 15 days, but the longer the cure, the greater the chance of the meat going bad due to contaminants.
I travel for work and i have an upcoming trip that will be 10 nights. so it's an opportunity to toss a brisket in the fridge and let it soak up the brine untouched and without the fridge door constantly opening. also there wont be much left in the fridge while i'm gone so i can remove a shelf and put a cambro in no problem.


I'm not 100% sure I'd trust a pastrami recipe that tells you to buy a store bought corned beef...

I got a little curious, I found this article about Katz's (although I prefer Second Ave Deli...) who cures pastrami for 2 weeks:

https://www.seriouseats.com/how-katz-deli-makes-their-best-pastrami
the recipe they attached was only four days though.

I know both restaurants have their own books, maybe look there? The second ave deli one is more of a cookbook, Katz's more like marketing fluff (hence my preference!)

Good luck, good pastrami is hard to find, even around here!

Thanks for that... i will go hunting down Katz's recipe.

if you want to try some pastrami, the reason i am looking to make my own is that a friend recently tried this place and said the pastrami sandwich was great and sent me this article.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/17/lifestyle/nycs-best-pastrami-is-at-this-trendy-new-acadia/
 
@rickburn - If you read the article, it sez homemade is better, but you can use a store bought corned beef if you don't want to spend the time and effort to make your own.
 
It's my understanding that you must first make, (or buy), corned beef. Then desalinate it and apply a pastrami rub and either bake it or smoke it.

Here's how to make corned beef:

Our Homemade Corned Beef Recipe Outshines Store Bought BTW - improperly cured corned beef can be dangerous.

For such a long curing time, you need an equilibrium cure. This ensures that, by the time you are done, the salt and nitrite concentration in the meat are correct, and that the cure penetrates into all parts of the meat.

The above recipe is a bit dubious, IMO. I just tried the calculator with a 2.1 kg piece of meat, and it calls for over a gallon of brine. That's ridiculous, you don't need more than 50% of the meat weight. The nitrate content is about right at 162 ppm, but the salt content at 3.7% in that calculator is way too high. This pastrami is going to be over salted, and not just by my taste, but by pretty much everyone's taste. A good starting point is 2.5 % salt concentration. That's a middle-of the road value that most people find right. If you like it more or less salty, adjust up or down next time, keeping the cure #1 content the same, but increasing or reducing the amount of salt.

Here is how you can work out the correct proportions:
  1. Weigh your meat.
  2. Calculate the amount of brine at between 0.5 and 1.0 times the weight of the meat. (0.5 is enough, 1.0 won't do any harm, but you'll use more salt and cure #1.)
  3. Add the weight of the meat and water.
  4. Multiply the total weight (meat plus water) by 0.0225. That is the amount of salt you need.
  5. Multiply the total weight (meat plus water) by 0.0025. That is the amount of cure #1 you need. (Mind the zeros past the decimal point.)
  6. Dissolve salt and cure #1 in the water and you have your brine.
  7. Put meat and brine into a ziplock or vacuum bag and seal the bag after removing as much air as possible.
  8. Cure in the fridge and turn the bag over every other day, so the cure reaches everywhere and gets stirred up a little.
Example:
  • 2120 g meat
  • 1000 g water
  • (2120 g + 1000 g) * 0.0225 = 70 g salt
  • (2120 g + 1000 g) * 0.0025 = 8 g cure #1
Curing time depends on the thickness and shape of the meat. Counterintuitively, a slab of meat that is 9 cm thick takes longer to cure than a round muscle with 9 cm diameter. You can find a good curing time calculator here:

https://genuineideas.com/ArticlesIndex/nitritecuringcalculator.html
That page has an animation at the bottom that explains why a flat piece of meat with a particular thickness takes longer to cure than a round piece with the same diameter.

Because this is an equilibrium cure, the calculated time is the minimum. It is no problem to leave the meat in the cure for longer because the amount of salt and nitrite are calculated to give the desired final concentration. Once osmotic pressure has distributed the salts evenly throughout the meat and water, the concentration of salts cannot get any higher. So, if you are busy and don't get around to cooking your pastrami once it is fully cured, it is no problem to leave it in the bag for another week or two.

I am curious as to why you want to go so long on the cure. The length of time is dependent on the thickness of your meat. 3.5" thick beef takes about 15 days, but the longer the cure, the greater the chance of the meat going bad due to contaminants.
See above. An equilibrium cure is a set-and-forget method to ensure that the meat will not be too salty. If stored airtight and cold (< 6 ºC), there is absolutely zero chance of any bacteria growth; the salt and nitrite see to that.

The curing time depends on the shape of the meat. 15 days is about right for a 3.5" slab. A round muscle (such as eye of round) with 3.5" diameter cures in about half the time. With an equilibrium cure, if in doubt, leave the meat in the cure for another week. Longer is not a problem, but too short is.

Once you cook and cut your pastrami, any grey patch in the center of the meat is a sure-fire indication that the meat wasn't cured long enough. If that happens, no big deal. Just eat the meat promptly (within two or three days) or freeze it. And cure it for longer next time.

Some tips:
  • Replace the water with a malty dark beer. That works really well.
  • Per liter, add 30–50 g of sugar.
  • Per liter, add three bay leaves, plus a teaspoon each of crushed juniper berries, crushed allspice berries, garlic powder, crushed caraway seed, and cayenne pepper.
Of course, you can vary the spices as you see fit. Cinnamon, cloves, chili powder, and cumin (1 tsp each per liter) make for a nice combination, too.
 
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I travel for work and i have an upcoming trip that will be 10 nights. so it's an opportunity to toss a brisket in the fridge and let it soak up the brine untouched and without the fridge door constantly opening. also there wont be much left in the fridge while i'm gone so i can remove a shelf and put a cambro in no problem.




Thanks for that... i will go hunting down Katz's recipe.

if you want to try some pastrami, the reason i am looking to make my own is that a friend recently tried this place and said the pastrami sandwich was great and sent me this article.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/17/lifestyle/nycs-best-pastrami-is-at-this-trendy-new-acadia/
But, “as much as I’d love to take credit for it, our pastrami is from Liebman’s, the last Kosher deli in the Bronx,” Bokovza said. “They brine it, smoke it and steam it and then send it over to us.” Acadia presents it perfectly — and with top-notch accompaniments.

That one I’ve been to, and their pastrami was great! I know Katz’s sends their pastrami out to smoke, maybe it goes here? Who knows?



I’m gonna try to get up there soon! It opened the year I was born

 
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That's a nice recipe with a good spice mix. The nitrite concentration (152 ppm) is fine. At 3.7% salt with this recipe, the pastrami will come out very salty though.

In the recipe, it says that they cut the original 2 cups of Diamond kosher salt in half, but used Morton kosher salt instead, which is much denser. One cup of Diamond kosher salt weighs 140 g, so the original recipe called for 280 g of salt (which is way too salty, I agree).

The modified recipe calls for ¾ cup of Morton kosher salt or 178 g. But the 178 g is 10 g more than the actual weight of ¾ cup of Morton kosher salt, which weighs 168 g. Net effect: 3.6% salt concentration if you go with the 178 g of salt, 3.5% if you go with the volumetric measurement. Both are too much IMO and—either way—you will get very salty pastrami…

I would reduce the salt to around 125 g (2.6%) to start with. Most people will find that this is just right. A slightly under-salted pastrami is a lot nicer than a seriously over-salted one, so this errs on the side of caution. If you like more salt, step it up to 150 g next time, and chances are that you'll be happy.
 
i've made pastrami a few times. i really don't think curing salt is necessary (unless you want the pink coloured meat) if it will be eaten in a few days. i also prefer using the flat for even cooking times and not the entire packer brisket. also after smoking and setting bark , steam cook to finish.
 
Because it is a whole muscle, nitrite isn’t needed for safety. But pastrami contains nitrite not just for colour. The nitrite imparts a flavour that you simply don’t get without. For example, nitrite is what makes ham taste like ham instead of cooked pork, and it is what gives bacon its typical flavour.

If you leave out the nitrite, you’ll end up with something closer to roast beef than pastrami.
 
It's so annoying that our flavor preferences seem hardwired to prefer things that give us cancer... Same problem with BBQ!
 
Cut out the booze, and you’ll reduce the cancer risk far more than by cutting out the bacon and BBQ. In the grand scheme of things, cured meats are probably a quite minor problem. Thinking of ultra processed food, obesity, air pollution, micro plastics, PCBs, forever chemicals, etc.

But, yes, cured meats should be eaten in moderation.
 
Cut out the booze, and you’ll reduce the cancer risk far more than by cutting out the bacon and BBQ. In the grand scheme of things, cured meats are probably a quite minor problem. Thinking of ultra processed food, obesity, air pollution, micro plastics, PCBs, forever chemicals, etc.

But, yes, cured meats should be eaten in moderation.
You're just proving my point. I know alcohol is horrible for your body, yet that doesn't seem to stop us from developing a taste for it... Same problem with ultraprocessed food.
Heck it wouldn't surprise me if in blind tests seasoning with microplastics came out as a winner!
 
Example:
  • 2120 g meat
  • 1000 g water
  • (2120 g + 1000 g) * 0.0225 = 70 g salt
  • (2120 g + 1000 g) * 0.0025 = 8 g cure #1
First of all, thank you for this precise recipe! I was looking for exactly this and it made me understand brines immediately! This results in meat with ~2.5% salinity. I kept reading recipes that called for a N gallons of water with X cups of salt, etc... and I just stay away from those types of imprecise measurements, especially when it comes to cures.
That being said, it feels like 2.5% might be too high for my taste. I usually do 1.5%-1.75% salinity for sausage and that often pushes the limits for my family in particular. Is 2.5% the norm for brined meats? Does the added sugar you mention at the end balance things out maybe?
 
That being said, it feels like 2.5% might be too high for my taste. I usually do 1.5%-1.75% salinity for sausage and that often pushes the limits for my family in particular. Is 2.5% the norm for brined meats? Does the added sugar you mention at the end balance things out maybe?
2.5% salt is pretty much a middle-of-the-road concentration. Many lacto-ferments are made that way as well. You can go as high as 3% or as low as maybe 1.5%. I wouldn't go much below that, both for safety reasons as well as taste.

So, just reduce the salt concentration to your liking, but keep the nitrite concentration the same, to stay on the safe side.
 
2.5% salt is pretty much a middle-of-the-road concentration. Many lacto-ferments are made that way as well. You can go as high as 3% or as low as maybe 1.5%. I wouldn't go much below that, both for safety reasons as well as taste.

So, just reduce the salt concentration to your liking, but keep the nitrite concentration the same, to stay on the safe side.
I know about 0.25% curing salts from sausage and charcuterie making and will keep that a constant but will meet you in the middle for total salt for this run of lamb pastrami. 1.75% salt + 0.25% cure #1! I'm hoping to get this done in the coming weeks and will report back.

It's so funny you mention lacto-ferments too. I lacto ferment vegetables without an understanding of how brining works. I generally do 3% of the water weight in salt and that has been working out fine for me but now that I understand how you can measure the total weight of everything to know the salinity of the final product to be consumed I can actually play around with it. It's so simple and obvious... how could I not understand brines up until now?! Thank you!
 
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