135Cr3 steel, asking for some feedback from users

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lotfong

lotfong

Tabarnak !!
Joined
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Hi y'all
I am a bladesmith and I've been using various different steels in the last few years, and there is one steel that has been shining lately in the few knives I've made with it, the european steel called 135Cr3.
It is a low alloyed carbon steel that has some potentially nice properties that makes it useful for a kitchen knife when well treated, namely good edge stability, high hardness and good sharpenability.
Its composition puts it somewhere between white 1 and blue 1, it gets a very fine but bitey edge easily and holds it, and is quite tough.
I feel like it could be a great and versatile steel to offer. Besides it does tolerate quite well a water quench in san mai blades, which is a thing I like as a maker.

So I was wondering if anybody felt like sharing some feedback in use from various knives made with that steel, how they like it compared to some more common steels.

I am aware it isn't well known but I know some well regarded makers use it often and the few of these that I talked with about this particular steel had mostly praise for it.
I am mostly asking as I have been trying a lot of different steels and I am planning on working with maximum 2 or 3 steel options for the future and I consider heavily this particular one.
Of course the heat treatment and how well it was forged matters more than the steel most of the time, but still sometimes a particular steel might have some specific characteristics in use that makes it especially interesting.
Besides, user perspective from knives made with it is quite scarce on the web, so I was thinking this could provide some info for other people interested by it.
So yeah if you guys have any experience from a user perspective I'd be happy to know about it!
Thanks
 
i have never used it. but i will tell you a little story about uddeholm 15n20.

this steel contains about 0.75%C and 2%Ni

so i had a friend over. he wanted to buy a new japanese knife. and i somehow told him why not simply make a knife of the material i have.
i mean very seldom does the japanese knives go above 62hrc anyway.

so i invited him and fired up the gas forge.
2 minutes. then bam it was nonmagnetic. took it up a shade more.

quenched it in oil. cracked a piece of the blade off. just after quench. and the thing was even when that **** was full hard. maybe 65hrc. it was almost impossible to crack a piece off. i banged if for several minutes. with a hammer. just to check the grain structure. and then finally it cracked. after maybe 30 blows or so. checked it and it was good (surprise surprise). temped it at 165C 2x1h. came out fukn awesome. i think my buddy is still grinding on it.
 
but if i were you and had 1,3%C steel i'd just ht it to above non magnetic and quench in oil. then temper to taste.
 
inferno said:
i have never used it. but i will tell you a little story about uddeholm 15n20.

this steel contains about 0.75%C and 2%Ni

so i had a friend over. he wanted to buy a new japanese knife. and i somehow told him why not simply make a knife of the material i have.
i mean very seldom does the japanese knives go above 62hrc anyway.

so i invited him and fired up the gas forge.
2 minutes. then bam it was nonmagnetic. took it up a shade more.

quenched it in oil. cracked a piece of the blade off. just after quench. and the thing was even when that **** was full hard. maybe 65hrc. it was almost impossible to crack a piece off. i banged if for several minutes. with a hammer. just to check the grain structure. and then finally it cracked. after maybe 30 blows or so. checked it and it was good (surprise surprise). temped it at 165C 2x1h. came out fukn awesome. i think my buddy is still grinding on it.
Click to expand...
Yes 15n20 is some very good stuff in my experience too, so tough
 
inferno said:
but if i were you and had 1,3%C steel i'd just ht it to above non magnetic and quench in oil. then temper to taste.
Click to expand...
I must add that I am asking about how well the steel is from a user's perspective, I already got the technical stuff figured out with this steel and other ones I use currently. Having a proper heat treatment oven helps a lot I must admit
 
The reason why I wanted to ask users instead of makers is that I already have feedback from other smiths and from my own perspective I am really confident I can make as nice a blade as I can with that steel, but I found very little imput from people actually using knives made from that specific steel. I am simply curious if that particular steel is something that could be interesting for potential clients. The four knives I sold made with it in a sanmai construction were very well liked by my clients, but only one of them had any experience with carbon steel and had very little perspective about steels altogether, and knowing that people here on this forum might have some more experience with different steels in different knives I thought it could be a good question to ask. I am aware that comparing different knives from different makers in different steels can be like comparing apples to oranges, nonetheless I wondered if anybody with some experience with knives made out of 135cr3 and other more common steels felt like sharing their experience
 
ian said:
Hope you get some user opinions!
Click to expand...
Heard. I got a mono petty from Simon, but I’m putting it under the tree as a gift to myself, and I’m not smart enough about steels any ol way. Someone please give their take on this steel.
 
I only have limited experience with it in a mono Gyuto by Simon.
I like the steel more than the knife and chose it again for my Custom with Milan.
It's a French steel and therefore more popular with French makers.
It's quite a tough steel which also feels nice on the board imo. I wouldn't personally compare it to 26c3 too much, they feel rather different but both nice steels. Edge retention is rather good with 135Cr3, also keeps a more bitey edge when it starts to dull. Feels good on the stones, not hard to sharpen and isn't overly reactive. Mine pretty much only saw vegetable and developed some nice blues over time. I stored it some time ago and it's still lots of blues. A lot of knives grey over time.
S M Patina rechts.jpg

Overall I really like the steel
 
JayS20 said:
I only have limited experience with it in a mono Gyuto by Simon.
I like the steel more than the knife and chose it again for my Custom with Milan.
It's a French steel and therefore more popular with French makers.
It's quite a tough steel which also feels nice on the board imo. I wouldn't personally compare it to 26c3 too much, they feel rather different but both nice steels. Edge retention is rather good with 135Cr3, also keeps a more bitey edge when it starts to dull. Feels good on the stones, not hard to sharpen and isn't overly reactive. Mine pretty much only saw vegetable and developed some nice blues over time. I stored it some time ago and it's still lots of blues. A lot of knives grey over time.
View attachment 155681
Overall I really like the steel
Click to expand...
Thank you so much that is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for!! I have a suji from milan in 135cr3 it is stunning, I think you will not be disappointed!
 
Just some thoughts about this steel after some months where I had the chance to use it more extensively along some other steels, through special orders and fun side projects.

I did some comparisons with this steel and three other steels I am quite familiar with, and that are quite well established in the japanese knife community.

I mainly looked for edge stability, and which steels veered a bit either towards toughness, edge retention and aggressiveness of the edge.

Beware that these are based on my own experience in my kitchen in the last 3 months and while I cook every day and they get a fair bit of use as we are 7 under the roof, it still is no match to a full prep kitchen in a restaurant. This being said, I have made knives for clients that work with these knives 60+h a week in each of these steels and got some feedback from them to assess my empirical conclusions.

Beware also as it is a very informal and not scientific test, and the differences are actually very small, hardly noticeable in a day to day basis, especially as a home cook.

Besides, my heat treatment might differ to some other smiths, I water quench and stay over 63hrc most of the time. I forge at quite low temperatures and I refine carbides as much as I can through a DET anneal and give the blade a proper soak to get the most out of the steel as I realistically can.

Anyway, take all this with a grain of salt, but here is my perspective.

All blades are at pretty much the same geometry, thickness BTE (~0.1mm at 1mm behind the edge), hardness. They were all finished on a aiiwatani koppa lv3 from JNS and stropped on linen, all cut hanging hair with ease.

I use a lot of vtoku2, 26c3, aogami super and 135cr3, all in san mai, most of the time iron clad but sometimes stainless clad.


Vtoku 2 is the toughest at pretty much any hardness, and by a bit. The edge is fine and super aggressive, but not for long, keeps cutting a good while. Very nice steel for anything workhorse IMO. The steel I have the best feedback in the kitchen for prep cooks so far.

26c3 behaves similarly, almost as tough but with a noticeably less aggressive edge. The very fine edge lasts slightly longer than vtoku2 but once it's gone it goes downwards a bit faster too. A very polyvalent steel that will have edge characteristics corresponding to the user's sharpening regimen (I like shapton pro 2k and light strop on natural stone, gets a bith toothier). Prep cooks like the edge they get and the retention is adequate.

Aogami super is the least tough of the bunch but not by a tremendous margin. Very very aggressive edge that lasts long, and after that edge is gone it just keeps cutting no matter what. I love that steel and prep cooks love it too for that reason. Shame that this steel is so rare and expensive.

135cr3 is almost as tough as 26c3, the initial edge almost as aggressive as vtoku2, with the fine edge retention almost as long as aogami super, and the working edge retention between vtoku2 and aogami super after the fine edge is gone. The prep cook friend who has one really loves it so far, has nothing bad to say about it.

In this regard I consider it the most balanced steel of the bunch and my favourite, it can handle pretty much anything when well made. And it is dirt cheap, the cheapest of the bunch.

I still like the others tho and will keep working with them but if I had to keep only one steel to work with it would be the one
 
Troopah_Knives said:
Large carbide volume very low toughness. Your lineup may benefit a bit more from something like 52100 where you can get a bit better toughness if you want more balanced steel. 135Cr3 is pretty extreme with some just about the most carbon you see in a Si-Mn-Cr steel.
Click to expand...
Yeah I was aiming at either uber high carbon steels or tungsten alloyed steels. I've got silver steel from GFS with 1%carbon, 0.95cr and 0.2V thay is tougher than all of these and actually quite fun. 52100 is fun too, anyway apex ultra is coming that will be interesting
 
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