180 - 200mm gyuto?

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HumbleHomeCook

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I was eyeballing that one to give the size a try as well. I don’t think I’m up for a project at this time 🙈 so might have to keep looking.
Have a look at Hinokuni. The blade on mine is thin and quite even. Tadafusa is another that isn't overly expensive but I actually prefer the grind and profile on my Hinokuni.
 

LostHighway

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I don't know why I've been so slow to respond this thread but I really like 160 - 190mm knives when cooking for one or two. I currently have:

162 Kippington (tall heel for the length so more a mini gyuto than a traditional petty)
177 Myojin R2
182 Wat Pro
186 HSC/// Z-Wear
plus a couple bunkas at 182 (Mazaki) and 193mm (Isasmedjan).

All of these get used fairly regularly with the @HSC /// Knives probably seeing the most use and the Watanabe the least. I do tend to prefer stainless, semi-stainless or stainless clad for these smaller knives while most of my 220+ knives are reactive, personal quirk I guess.
 
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Delat

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I decided my 180 Myojin gyuto needed some company so I ordered a 185 Koutetsu R2 bunka for myself and a 165 Kurosaki VG10 santoku for my wife. It’ll be interesting to see what she thinks of the little santoku since she just switched from her old 6” wusthof to the Myojin recently.
 

ModRQC

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This thread prompted me to order a Masahiro VC 180 and see how I feel about gyutos of this size. After a about a week with the knife, I can say that it's a size that I could get used to for daily tasks. I've got three small kids and often find myself making an early meal and late meal, and cutting small amounts of fruit/veggies for snacks. I've been mainly using a 165mm petty/mini gyuto for those tasks and the bit of extra length is nice. It's large enough to handle a few potatoes or carrots without thinking that I "need" something bigger.

A little more length would be nice - a 195 Mabs may be my next purchase.

A few comments on the Masahiro specifically. At $105, it's at a lower price point than most knives discussed here. So, it's not a surprise that there are a lot of sharp edges: spine, choil, handle. The spine and choil were particularly uncomfortable and I almost immediately took the knife out to the garage to soften those up a bit. Unfortunately, with it being a monosteel knife, that was a lot more work than the Tosa project knives that I worked on previously.

The knife also came with a substantial righty bias. No big deal, I'm right handed, but there was some steering that I felt I needed to adapt to. Over time, I'll probably shift it to a more 50/50 bevel.

This is the thickest knife BTE that I've purchased since joining the forums. Even after a full sharpening, the BTE thickness was noticeable (but it still cuts substantially better than my old Zwilling santoku). I think the knife could use some real thinning, but that's going to be a chore on a monosteel knife I fear.

Overall, I'm glad that I tried the knife. It's a good size for me, the steel is nice to sharpen, it's not too reactive, and it's nice to try a western handled knife in good steel. There are some drawbacks, but for the price, it's still a great value over a higher priced Wusthof.
It's not so demanding to thin it. You don't need it to be so thin neither. And if you resharpen it to match asymmetry correctly it won't steer so much anymore. It's a pretty easy steel do deal with on the stones. And a very good knife for the price.
 

DF18

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I don't know why I've been so slow to respond this thread but I really like 160 - 190mm knives when cooking for one or two. I currently have:

162 Kippington (tall heel for the length so more a mini gyuto than a traditional petty)
177 Myojin R2
182 Wat Pro
186 HSC/// Z-Wear
plus a couple bunkas at 182 (Mazaki) and 193mm (Isasmedjan).

All of these get used fairly regularly with the @HSC /// Knives probably seeing the most use and the Watanabe the least. I do tend to prefer stainless, semi-stainless or stainless clad for these smaller knives while most of my 220+ knives are reactive, personal quirk I guess.
That’s awesome. I’ve really been wanting to try a Kip and HSC.

stainless really makes sense for this size. I get mildly annoyed when I will break out a small knife to cut one lemon, then wipe and wash it immediately lol. Other than that I’m a huge “fully reactive blade” snob.
 

Delat

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This thread prompted me to order a Masahiro VC 180 and see how I feel about gyutos of this size. After a about a week with the knife, I can say that it's a size that I could get used to for daily tasks. I've got three small kids and often find myself making an early meal and late meal, and cutting small amounts of fruit/veggies for snacks. I've been mainly using a 165mm petty/mini gyuto for those tasks and the bit of extra length is nice. It's large enough to handle a few potatoes or carrots without thinking that I "need" something bigger.

A little more length would be nice - a 195 Mabs may be my next purchase.

A few comments on the Masahiro specifically. At $105, it's at a lower price point than most knives discussed here. So, it's not a surprise that there are a lot of sharp edges: spine, choil, handle. The spine and choil were particularly uncomfortable and I almost immediately took the knife out to the garage to soften those up a bit. Unfortunately, with it being a monosteel knife, that was a lot more work than the Tosa project knives that I worked on previously.

The knife also came with a substantial righty bias. No big deal, I'm right handed, but there was some steering that I felt I needed to adapt to. Over time, I'll probably shift it to a more 50/50 bevel.

This is the thickest knife BTE that I've purchased since joining the forums. Even after a full sharpening, the BTE thickness was noticeable (but it still cuts substantially better than my old Zwilling santoku). I think the knife could use some real thinning, but that's going to be a chore on a monosteel knife I fear.

Overall, I'm glad that I tried the knife. It's a good size for me, the steel is nice to sharpen, it's not too reactive, and it's nice to try a western handled knife in good steel. There are some drawbacks, but for the price, it's still a great value over a higher priced Wusthof.
You can try a little asymmetric sharpening, like 10 degrees on the right face, 20 degrees on the left. That'll have a side benefit of thinning the thicker face behind the edge as well. I've been doing my Shiro Kamo like that just for grins (it has a pronounced righty bias but I've never noticed steering). I've been thinking about dropping even lower on the convex side, like maybe a 5/20 split.
 

ModRQC

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Original choil - Masahiro VC (210):

IMG_5399.JPG


First "thinning" I mostly cleaned/widened the microbevel a bit. From factory, the steep asymmetry behind the edge is not zero grind (the edge was yet another micro-bevel on top of it). Now it was. Didn't change much with original steering, but already would cut much better.

IMG_5501.jpg
IMG_5491.jpg


Second "thinning" was done once the knife got dull again - while I was at sharpening. I just convexed over the microbevel until the harsh transition with the face was dealt with, and got the BTE thin enough to make full sense in the process.

IMG_7789.jpg
IMG_6556.JPG


This cleared most of the steering.
 

Benuser

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This thread prompted me to order a Masahiro VC 180 and see how I feel about gyutos of this size. After a about a week with the knife, I can say that it's a size that I could get used to for daily tasks. I've got three small kids and often find myself making an early meal and late meal, and cutting small amounts of fruit/veggies for snacks. I've been mainly using a 165mm petty/mini gyuto for those tasks and the bit of extra length is nice. It's large enough to handle a few potatoes or carrots without thinking that I "need" something bigger.

A little more length would be nice - a 195 Mabs may be my next purchase.

A few comments on the Masahiro specifically. At $105, it's at a lower price point than most knives discussed here. So, it's not a surprise that there are a lot of sharp edges: spine, choil, handle. The spine and choil were particularly uncomfortable and I almost immediately took the knife out to the garage to soften those up a bit. Unfortunately, with it being a monosteel knife, that was a lot more work than the Tosa project knives that I worked on previously.

The knife also came with a substantial righty bias. No big deal, I'm right handed, but there was some steering that I felt I needed to adapt to. Over time, I'll probably shift it to a more 50/50 bevel.

This is the thickest knife BTE that I've purchased since joining the forums. Even after a full sharpening, the BTE thickness was noticeable (but it still cuts substantially better than my old Zwilling santoku). I think the knife could use some real thinning, but that's going to be a chore on a monosteel knife I fear.

Overall, I'm glad that I tried the knife. It's a good size for me, the steel is nice to sharpen, it's not too reactive, and it's nice to try a western handled knife in good steel. There are some drawbacks, but for the price, it's still a great value over a higher priced Wusthof.
Glad you tried it. As for thinning a monosteel carbon, it's the easiest there is: carbon steel is the least abrasive resistant.
If it is your first strongly asymmetric blade, you will need to get used to it. By sharpening you may reduce the steering and make it more acceptable. The idea is to balance friction on both sides. As the edge is off-centered to the left the blade will tend to steer clockwise. You can reduce it by thinning the right side behind the edge, and by increasing the sharpening angle on the left side. I want my right bevel to form a continuous arc with the face, so you don't see a shoulder. As for the left side, at the first sharpening I make a straight bevel and won't ease the shoulder so far. Once you got used to the knife and have somewhat balanced the friction you may further thin both sides. With a thinner blade the steering is much less pronounced.
At the first sharpening I wouldn't hesitate to use a coarse stone (320 or so) and get rid of the factory edge. Start on the right side at the lowest angle you're comfortable with, raise the spine only little by little and check your progress by looking at the scratch pattern. Make sure there's no microbevel left. Use a sharpie and a loupe.
I guess I end the right bevel at some 10-12 degrees. Left side between 15 and 20.
Try to keep a loose grip. The first reaction on steering is often to hold a firm grip. This makes things only worse.
You may want to force a patina, with coffee, vinegar, mustard. Make sure to degrease it before. Rinse with abundant hot water. Once a patina installed, this steel is very stable. The first thing you see when forcing the patina, is normal rust. That's perfectly fine. The patina is the further oxidation of common rust, and will turn black, and blue and grey. If you want to force a patina, do it prior to the first sharpening. It does attack the edge a bit, and the colour helps to see where you're actually abrading steel.
It requires a bit of work, but will give a lot of fun as well, I hope.
 

Benuser

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Just to show the idea, here with a very thick knife, a yo-deba.
Misono_yo-deba.jpg

As you see, the right bevel (left on the photo) is in line with the convex face.

P.S. On steering: if you encounter an unexpected steering: it may be caused by a remaining burr.
 
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kot_blini

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How do you guys like your gyutos in this size range to be balanced? Do you grip it farther back than your larger knives?

I just got my very first (and only!) jknife a few weeks ago, a 180mm Suisin virgin carbon gyuto from Korin. While the performance blows away anything else I’ve used, the balance point is farther back than I’m accustomed to. I’m still trying to figure out a comfortable way to accommodate it. But I am new to knives in this size.

In this pic you can see the balance is slightly ahead of the handle near the transition to the bolster.
1BEE23C0-9D78-4A20-9540-5974EFE786AD.png
 

refcast

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@kot_blini I sand the handle smaller until I get he grip and weight I want, based on any hand hot spots or sharp hard edges I feel. Or how curled or tight my pinch grip is. . . And how comfortable it is at its current state
 

kot_blini

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@kot_blini I sand the handle smaller until I get he grip and weight I want, based on any hand hot spots or sharp hard edges I feel. Or how curled or tight my pinch grip is. . . And how comfortable it is at its current state
I see… I have quite small hands and right now the handle feels big to me so that might be a bit of a project. I almost got the Misono instead, the handle sounds like it would be a better fit out of the box. But I’m curious how forward the balance point on 180mm gyutos can realistically get with a western handle.
 

Barmoley

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With a shorter, narrower blade and western handle the balance is usually more toward the handle so you need to adjust accordingly. You will also get used to it after some use.
 

Barmoley

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Her are a few mazakis in this size that I have and don't use enough.

PXL_20211029_170534665.jpg























Before @ian starts crying

Matus 1.2442 honyaki
Aritsugu a-type gokinko
Rahven flexible ceramic
Kippington 52100
Matus niolox
Bensbytes aeb-l
 

Benuser

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How do you guys like your gyutos in this size range to be balanced? Do you grip it farther back than your larger knives?

I just got my very first (and only!) jknife a few weeks ago, a 180mm Suisin virgin carbon gyuto from Korin. While the performance blows away anything else I’ve used, the balance point is farther back than I’m accustomed to. I’m still trying to figure out a comfortable way to accommodate it. But I am new to knives in this size.

In this pic you can see the balance is slightly ahead of the handle near the transition to the bolster.
View attachment 149319
IMG_20211030_035751.jpg

Moving my hand away from the blade. With a 270 I only have ring finger and little finger behind the choil. Have a loose grip and let your hand find the most comfortable position. My thumb doesn't exercise any pressure — has to do with my age. If it were cut off the knife would remain just as stable as it does now.
By the way: make sure the right side of the choil is smooth by chamfering, but stay away from the heel. You may use a little piece of sandpaper. The safest way to protect the heel and not damaging the blade's surface in case you would care is using a nail file. Check the right side of the bolster as well. I use an abrasive sponge by Robert Bosch.
Screenshot_20211030_042406_com.amazon.mShop.android.shopping.jpg
 

kot_blini

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View attachment 149346
Moving my hand away from the blade. With a 270 I only have ring finger and little finger behind the choil. Have a loose grip and let your hand find the most comfortable position. My thumb doesn't exercise any pressure — has to do with my age. If it were cut off the knife would remain just as stable as it does now.
By the way: make sure the right side of the choil is smooth by chamfering, but stay away from the heel. You may use a little piece of sandpaper. The safest way to protect the heel and not damaging the blade's surface in case you would care is using a nail file. Check the right side of the bolster as well. I use an abrasive sponge by Robert Bosch. View attachment 149347
This is very helpful! I just tried this grip and it feels much more natural than what I had been doing (which involved keeping the index finger tip on the blade face in some way). I will still have to grind down the bolster a bit, but now I feel this can be a comfortable knife for me. Thank you for the specific tips on how to safely smooth out the choil and bolster, as this was something I was also uncertain about. I will try it out.
 

xxxclx

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Tosho has a really nice Konosuke/Yoshikane 180mm gyuto

 

HumbleHomeCook

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I got an email today that Carbon Knife Co. has the 180mm Ashi Ginga Stainless back in stock. If it wasn't the holidays I'd already have one ordered.
 

MowgFace

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180-200 are totally fine. I have a small selection that, like most above, are favorites for small/quick tasks that just need to get done.
  • Munetoshi Honyaki ~204mm
  • Ashi Ginga ~200mm
  • Shigeki Tanaka Western Ginsanko ~190mm
  • Shigeki Tanaka B#2 ~190mm
  • Yoshihiro Ginsanko Santoku ~170

The Tanaka B#2 is my lady's favorite beater that gets pulled out most regularly for her.
Shigeki Tanaka B#2
Masayuki Tanaka Ginsanko (Not Shigeki)
Yoshihiro Ginsanko
Ashi SS

4B7DF497-1FEC-4185-AC26-832B4DE32C12.jpeg


Munetoshi Honyaki:
307630BE-B795-452E-B2D3-79343092A4D3.jpeg
 

MowgFace

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henkle

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My first "sharp" knife, and my first step into the rabbit hole, was a Zhen 180 3-layered VG10. Five knives that gradually moved up the excitement scale later (including a Makoto 180 R2 bunka) I still reach for the Zhen when I need to cut something that I'm afraid might damage the more expensive knives. I'm still amazed at how sharp it can get, how well it cuts, and even how nice it feels to use. Not as fun to use as my Wakui 210 gyuto or Kamo nakiri, yet still not a bad kitchen tool. I don't use it often enough to comment on how long it holds an edge, but it makes me wonder if I've fully succumbed to the "hype of the hole."
 
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