210mm Wa Gyuto All Around-er Recs

[Anteater]

Hey y'all.

I'm looking to start (slowly) upgrading from my small set of Shun Soras and have decided to replace the chef knife first.

LOCATION

United States

KNIFE TYPE

Chef Knife

Are you right or left handed?

Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

No - although looking mostly at SS Clad Carbon.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?

300 USD. I was originally looking in the 150-250 dollar range, and would still prefer that, but my resolve to not spend as much has quickly been broken down by how beautiful some of these knives are.

Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

Home.

Main Tasks?

Everything except the most destructive tasks (I have a meat cleaver for breaking down whole chickens, squash, etc.), so lots of hard and soft vegetables and proteins (mostly chicken, sometimes fish).

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Shun Sora Chef's Knife.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?

Pinch Grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use?

Push, pull, and chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife?

A general upgrade. Specifically, looking for a good all around-er that can handle most tasks around the kitchen without too much difficulty. I'm willing to sacrifice specific utility for a lesser amount of general utility. Ease of sharpening would be a bonus as I'm quite new to that (been practicing on the VG10 Shun). For an idea, carrots, potatoes, cabbage, garlic, tomatoes, and chicken are probably my most used food items.

Better aesthetics

I've been liking the kuruochi finishes I've seen a lot. I'm not into particularly flashy knives but even some of the highly recommended knives that look a little plain (like the Gesshin Ginga) are lower down on my list.

Comfort

Looking for something a little on the smaller side (thus 210mm), though not necessarily lighter.

Ease of Use

OotB use is very important, as it's going to take a while for me to get any good at sharpening. Ease of sharpening, then, is also important.

Edge Retention

Not super important to me. I wouldn't mind having extra opportunities to practice sharpening.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)

Yes.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)

Yes (poorly).

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)

I currently have a Sharp Pebble 1k/6k combo stone. I'd be willing to upgrade if this stone is going to significantly hold back the potential of a nicer knife.

My list so far (and I realize it's a little all over the place) is.....

Masakage Yuki
Mazaki Kasumi
Ikazuchi SS Clad AS
Tanaka SS Clad AS
Yoshikane SKD
Gengetsu SS Clad W2
Kintaro SS Clad AS

From the research I've done, the Gengetsu seems to be standing out as an almost universally recommended knife, although as I mentioned in the copy/paste, it seems a little plain looking for my tastes. The Masakage, Kintaro, and Mazaki fall into my aesthetic tastes the most, but at the end of the day, I'd rather have a useful knife than a pretty knife.

 

[HRC_64]

probaly goes without saying, but dont buy based on looks...
unless you mean profile do buy based on that!

I'd look at sometihing that is set-up well from the start,
and maybe has some dealer support to get you off to a good start.

Tanaka Ginsan from K&S is one example maybe to add/ look at,
and anything from JKI they can set up for you
and help you choose.

Keep in mind anythin decent is gonna need $100 in
new stones as part of you budget,

 

[Anteater]

probaly goes without saying, but dont buy based on looks...

Absolutely. When it comes down to it, I'm going to go with the knife that I think best suits my needs, but if it's a very close tie, I have a definite crush on some of the ones with a nice contrast between the cladding and core steels.

Tanaka Ginsan from K&S is one example maybe to add/ look at

That one looks really interesting, although I don't know much about its core steel. Do you have any insights?

and anything from JKI they can set up for you
and help you choose.

I sent an e-mail Jon's way with a condensed version of this post, essentially. Definitely looking to work with them on this.

Keep in mind anythin decent is gonna need $100 in new stones

You'd recommend stone upgrades then? I'm absolutely down for that, but it will probably force some of the knives that are approaching the $300 mark off my list.

 

[Jon-cal]

I have a Makoto white #2 in 210 that I really like. Sounds like pretty much everything you’re looking for. It’s on the cheaper side too so frees up some budget for stones

 

[Anteater]

I have a Makoto white #2 in 210 that I really like. Sounds like pretty much everything you’re looking for. It’s on the cheaper side too so frees up some budget for stones

That does look like it checks all of my boxes, but it looks out of stock from what I can tell. That's an issue I've been running into during this research that I hadn't expected but makes sense once I thought about it. So many of the knives that come highly recommended seem to be in very limited supply or are generally out of stock.

I'll for sure keep an eye out for it, though.

 

[Nemo]

Ginsan is stainless steel which has fairly low carbide volume (for a stainless steel- any stainless will have more carbides than most carbon steels). It's not super hard to sharpen, but certainly not as easy as carbon steel.

Note that the Tanaka Najishi is also available with a blue2 (carbon) core which may be closer to what you are seeking. Tanaka Najishi BTW is a very good performer. A thinnish middleweight wide bevel with pretty good food release for a thin knife. The profile is quite curved. The KnS versions have excellent fit & fininsh, with very nice handles (upgradable) and rounded spine and choil.

Have a look at Gengetsu from JKI. I have the semistainless. It's also available in white2. FWIW, the semistainless sharpens really well. Mine is a little thicker than my Tanaka Najishi but its food release is excellent. It has a much flatter profile than Najishi. The spine and choil are eased but not fully rounded. The handle is burned chestnut which suits the knife's aesthetic IMO (and is quite grippy too).

 

[Anteater]

Thanks for the recommendations, Nemo!

Apart from all of this, I'm also being offered (from panda) a Yoshikane 210 in White #2 for 250 bucks with a knife guard. I'm incredibly interested but was hoping some other folks might be able to chime in about it/the price point.

 

[Barmoley]

Gengetsu is excellent. Also, take a look at Kashima Sanjo from cleancut, it’s in Swedish, but if you send them an email they speak English very well.

 

[Nemo]

Whilst I have no personal experience of the white steel version (mine is semistainless SKD), Yoshikane does make quality knives.

 

[McMan]

I've used all of your list except the Kintaro... They’re all good knives at that $200+ sweetspot. Here're some thoughts…

Masakage Yuki--thin behind the edge (though I've heard others say there can be some variation), not a ton of distal taper, not a very thin tip, rounded choil will be love/hate (I'm not a big fan). Good all arounder.
Mazaki Kasumi—pronounced distal taper, thinner tip than Yuki, more aysmetric grind than Yuki.
Ikazuchi SS Clad AS--laser, AS adds edge-retention; this knife it the outlier on your list since it is a laser and everything else is a mid-weight.
Tanaka SS Clad AS--I've only used his Blue#2, which are a good value from K&S. Durable, without being too meaty behind the edge.
Yoshikane SKD-- good distal taper, thinnish tip, pointy profile, nice convex grind. On the shorter side, which helps a tad with food release but keep low height in mind if you have big hands.
Gengetsu SS Clad W2--Well respected for a reason... A goldilocks knife--not too thick, not too thin, not too heavy, not too light, etc. etc.

 

[HRC_64]

Absolutely. When it comes down to it, I'm going to go with the knife that I think best suits my needs, but if it's a very close tie, I have a definite crush on some of the ones with a nice contrast between the cladding and core steels.

Def still pick a knife that's aesthetically pleasing, but I would focus on the lines of the knife. The surface treatments you really want to get are those that are easiest to refinish.

[And refinishing natural stone kasumi or acid-enhanced contrast lamination lines is not typically considered easier than normal refinishing, and normal refinishing is enough of a hassle vs. basic edge sharpening.]

That one looks really interesting, although I don't know much about its core steel. Do you have any insights?

Ginsan (g3, ginsan-ko) is fine grained stainless steel. Its nice for a line knife, or cooks knife, petty knife. Carbon is great in 240s, workhorse, etc but for smaller knives...especialy if you're cutting fruit and everything else around the house...the G3 is useful option.

[Other semi steels are also worth looking at for similar reasons]

I sent an e-mail Jon's way with a condensed version of this post, essentially. Definitely looking to work with them on this.

The great thing about JKI is he can help you pick a knife that is setup OOTB. By setup, I think its not just the cutting edge, but the overall blade being thinned to the right amount for your needs/preferences, the profile suited to you, the non-cutting edges rounded or whatever it is. Don't take all of that for granted!

[ getting it right is worth the time and any premium paid if doing that work on your own is not in your comfort zone.]

You'd recommend stone upgrades then? I'm absolutely down for that, but it will probably force some of the knives that are approaching the $300 mark off my list.

Personally, if you are dealing with semi stainless, stainless, and/or stainless claddings...I would get 2nd gen syth stones. Cerax, Shapton, Chosera...JKI or JNS has options....For pure carbon/carbon clad I'd have no issue I think saying King KDS is OK on the other hand. You can get by with a 3-5K single stone if you get a perfectly setup knife; for a general kit I'd say 800-1200 and a 3k to 5k 2 stone set is fine.

[there are loads of opinions on this, this is a vastly simplified answer ... starting point for discussion/etc ]


.... Hope all this is useful.

Cheers.

 

[JBroida]

i dont know if i got back to your e-mail yet or not... should be caught up with e-mails by the end of tomorrow if all goes well (thought i would be good today, but a bunch of people came to work to visit me now that i'm back from japan)

 

[Anteater]

Thanks for all the help y'all.

I think right now it's narrowed down to the Gengetsu, Mazaki, and panda's Yoshikane I mentioned further up in the thread. If anyone has any more experience with the Yoshikane I'd love to hear it. It seems like potentially a great opportunity but I just haven't been able to dig up that much on the knife from various sources.

 

[MrHiggins]

I've owned a Gengetsu and a Mazaki, both in 240. I sold the Gengetsu because I found it too short vertically (48mm, I think). The Mazaki, I adore. It's about 53mm at the heel.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

I’ve got a Yoshikane SKD 210, love it. Can’t really compare it precisely to the Gengetsu 240 SS and Mazaki 180 White 2 (both of which I also love), but it is an amazing cutter that balances food release and not wedging very nicely. Edge retention in a professional environment is great and a small chip sharpened out very easily. I’ve been trending towards taller knives lately but the low height doesn’t bother me for this one. Though I do like everything I’ve tried by Mazaki, if forced to choose I’d likely pick the Yoshikane by a slight margin.

 

[DitmasPork]

I'm more of a 240/270 guy. Though I'm happy with my one 210, which is a Tanaka Ginsanko, checks all the boxes for me, easy to sharpen. I'd recommend it. The 240s I've had that I'm sure would translate to very good all-around 210s are Gengetsu SS, Mazaki.

Note: Just realized that MrHiggins also had a Gengetsu and Maz.

 

[acxenithzz]

I have a Gengetsu 210mm in SS, I would highly recommend it, it has a great profile. I actually have the 240mm as well, and the 210 feels like a bit of a different knife, a bit thicker and somewhat less distal taper. It's as if a similar mass of the 240mm's metal was compressed into a 210 profile. Not by any means a bad thing, just thought I'd share the observation.