300-ish Stone

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zizirex

Wabi-Sabi is a blessing in disguise.
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Hi,

I am looking for a nice around 300 ish gritstone that is good enough to remove a 120/150 scratch, cuts fast and doesn't dish like Crazy.
I have a Naniwa pro 400 but it cuts a bit slow for my taste and want something faster. I also have Cerax 320 but is dishes like Thanos Infinity Gauntlet Snap.

The choices that I would consider right now is :

Shapton Pro 320
King 300
Suehiro Debado 320

Or is there anymore suggestion?

Thanks
 
Both the Suehiro and Shapton dish pretty fast. The king barely dishes at all but can glaze over particularly with stainless steels/stainless cladding.
I have used all three pretty extensively and would say that the King 300 is my favorite. If you lap it with silicon carbide it doesn't glaze crazy quick and hogs off metal quickly. it's also really friggin' cheap
 
I like my JNS Matsukusuyama 300, but it's not especially fast.

I'm aware of Nubatama stones in the 320 range, but I currently know nothing about them.

Suehiro also has a new Gokumyo in the 300 range, but I also know nothing about those either yet.

(Sorry my post isn't helpful!)
 
The Norton Crystolon 300 is one I wished I'd found earlier. Otherwise the Shapton Glass 320. Often the first stone in a progression, as I usually start with thinning behind the edge. I don't always go up to the very edge, but the 320 certainly allows to do so as it provides a very even pattern without deep scratches. Keep it wet and have a light touch.
 
Good to hear you are enjoying your Crystolon. I love that thing


The Norton Crystolon 300 is one I wished I'd found earlier. Otherwise the Shapton Glass 320. Often the first stone in a progression, as I usually start with thinning behind the edge. I don't always go up to the very edge, but the 320 certainly allows to do so as it provides a very even pattern without deep scratches. Keep it wet and have a light touch.
 
The Norton Crystolon 300 is one I wished I'd found earlier. Otherwise the Shapton Glass 320. Often the first stone in a progression, as I usually start with thinning behind the edge. I don't always go up to the very edge, but the 320 certainly allows to do so as it provides a very even pattern without deep scratches. Keep it wet and have a light touch.

What's about it you wish you'd found earlier? How would you compare it with say NP400 and the SG320?
 
First, I'm bit reluctant to advise the Crystolon 300 as a first really coarse stone. Some pressure is involved in using it, but then it's very, very fast. You should know what you're doing.
The NP400 is a fantastic stone, but in no way a coarse one.
If I had known it before? Let's say the cheap combination Crystolon 60/300 is an excellent alternative to the SP120, SG120 and SG240 I have.
As for the SG320: my first impression is the SG works better for me when the very edge is concerned, when deburring. That's about tactile feedback. But so far I've used the Crystolon mostly for gross steel removal, so behind the edge.
 
Can’t recommend the King 300 splash and go enough. Doesn’t glaze too fast, doesn’t cut too deep. It might not cut as fast as others but for the price and use you can achieve out of it it’s hard to beat. Pretty sure it’s around 30 dollars on Amazon
 
First, I'm bit reluctant to advise the Crystolon 300 as a first really coarse stone. Some pressure is involved in using it, but then it's very, very fast. You should know what you're doing.
The NP400 is a fantastic stone, but in no way a coarse one.
If I had known it before? Let's say the cheap combination Crystolon 60/300 is an excellent alternative to the SP120, SG120 and SG240 I have.
As for the SG320: my first impression is the SG works better for me when the very edge is concerned, when deburring. That's about tactile feedback. But so far I've used the Crystolon mostly for gross steel removal, so behind the edge.

Thanks for the insight. Trying to differentiate their market right now. I see that their coarse grit is rated 120, and the fine grit 320, that would be the combo stone. Otherwise they have a Medium grit which is rated 180.

Are these the ones I heard folks can convert to water stones if so inclined?
 
In regards to coarse stones, I've found that what works best really depends on what sort of knives and steels you're working with.

For carbon/iron clad wide bevels, I find the JNS 300 to be an especially good stone. Doesn't dish too much, has just the right balance of abrasive release to cut without glazing but not become a total mud-fest that'll destroy the shinogi, cuts moderately quickly for its grit, leaves fairly refined scratches for its grit, and is truly 100% splash & go... However, it slows down to nearly the level of a 1K stone if you try using it for chip repairs on stainless or wear resistant steels, or if you're trying to thin stainless mono-steel. Likes a bit of pressure, too, this one.

Shapton GS 320 I find to be one of the best stones I've tried in this sort of grit range for stainless mono-steels, but it's a bit forgettable for me on simple carbons. It also falls into an awkward place of not being as versatile as the SG 500, and not as fast as the SG 220 (Which can still be refined with a fast 1K.). I agree with @Benuser that it seems to work better on hardened steel, with a smaller contact patch (Edges, or relief bevels just behind the edge.).

The Shapton Pro 320 is a stone I rarely find use for, to be honest. It's slow as all whatsit on anything decently alloyed, and dishes/sheds abrasive like crazy on soft cladding or just simply very soft carbon. However, on simple carbon alloys (10xx, shirogami, etc.) of middle hardness, it cuts very well without the bad habits it normally demonstrates, and is truly splash & go.

For some steels... Diamond plates. Soft, abrasion resistant stainless steels respond really well to them, as do high-carbide tool steels. They also work great on applications where you need to maintain more precise bevel geometry, like on woodworking tools or - sometimes - folders, or fixing geometry on blades that have developed frowns or bird-beaks in the profile from draw-through sharpeners or coarse rods. Not sexy, in the age of vitrified or resin-bonded diamond stones, but more affordable and still effective.

I also sometimes find myself making large jumps in grit from doing heavy lifting on 120-150 grit stones/plates, and having to spend a bit more time on a finer stone, because one of my 500-1K stones is actually cutting that particular steel faster than my 300-400's.

There's a lot of variables that dictate how these things behave. It pays off to have a collection if you're working on a lot of different steels... Hopefully this helps, though, if your application fits into one of the categories I describe above.
 
Thanks for the insight. Trying to differentiate their market right now. I see that their coarse grit is rated 120, and the fine grit 320, that would be the combo stone. Otherwise they have a Medium grit which is rated 180.

Are these the ones I heard folks can convert to water stones if so inclined?

Norton's website says "works best with oil".

https://www.nortonabrasives.com/en-us/product/crystolon-sc-single-grit-benchstone
I bought a can of Norton's Sharpening Stone Oil, and it's simply pharmaceutical-grade mineral oil. Label says "contains no animal or fish oils". Meets FDA requirements.

1628961292392.png
 
The Gesshin 400X is actually 320 grit. It does dish, but it's large enough to compensate for that. It gets quite muddy and hasn't left me with any unpleasant surprises, like deep gouges, while thinning.
 
The Gesshin 400X is actually 320 grit. It does dish, but it's large enough to compensate for that. It gets quite muddy and hasn't left me with any unpleasant surprises, like deep gouges, while thinning.
how is it compare to Gesshin 320? any idea?

I want to try his stones, but the shipping cost is too much to Canada
 
I haven't tried the 320, but I believe that is a splash/go stone whereas the 400X requires 15+ minutes of soaking - I would imagine the splash/go to be harder and dish slower.
When I lived up there, (Victoria/Cultus lake), I would use a shipping service just across the border for some purchases. There are private mail stores that cater to Canadians - you use your name, their address, and they charge you when you pick it up; used to be around $15 at the time. May be worth trying.
 
I haven't tried the 320, but I believe that is a splash/go stone whereas the 400X requires 15+ minutes of soaking - I would imagine the splash/go to be harder and dish slower.
When I lived up there, (Victoria/Cultus lake), I would use a shipping service just across the border for some purchases. There are private mail stores that cater to Canadians - you use your name, their address, and they charge you when you pick it up; used to be around $15 at the time. May be worth trying.
Well, Biden still closes the border but not the other way around. so who knows that service gonna be available again.
 
Ha! Hypocrisy is one of our most consistent traits. Sorry, wasn't aware of the current situation, but when things settle down to the new normal you can try it. It opens you up to the free shipping often available within the states, along with creative declaration options as you cross the border. I generally forgot about the wine and new toys in my trunk ;).
 
Norton's website says "works best with oil".
While I would agree with this, I always use mine with water (and propylene glycol if I want to add a surfactant or to thicken the water) The mess is not worth the extra cutting ability with oil IMO. I haven't had any problem going from water to oil and back. I do keep them away from my water stones. Loose grit seems to be the best way to deglaze them if needed IME. They're inexpensive, give one a try!
 
I’ll cast my vote for the JNS300 if you can grab one at a decent price. Highly versatile and slow to dish.
 
I really like my SG320 ..i use it as a first progression for soft stainless and for cleaning scratching after thinning with Debado 200.

considering all the benefits of glass stone with low dishing, decent price and true splash&go...I think its a great option
 
While I would agree with this, I always use mine with water (and propylene glycol if I want to add a surfactant or to thicken the water) The mess is not worth the extra cutting ability with oil IMO. I haven't had any problem going from water to oil and back. I do keep them away from my water stones. Loose grit seems to be the best way to deglaze them if needed IME. They're inexpensive, give one a try!

I've got a few actually. I probably bought them 50 years ago, but seldom use them. I tended to use them more for garden tools, scythes, garden shears, and hatchets/axes. I may have used them with bench-chisels too.
 
One more vote for JNS300.
It's faster than King 300, but it also feels a bit softer.
I use it to thin my iron clad blades or set the bevel on crappy stainless.
It's not super fast, but it doesn't dish too fast also.
 
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