76.6 HCR knife

[Michi]

I tried one of the Kyocera ceramic knives a few years ago. It was definitely very sharp. It also was extremely light. So much so that I didn't like using it at all, even though it cut very well. Just not my kind of knife…

 

[TB_London]

Way back when people used to soft stainless knives said all the same things about Japanese knives....

“They’re too hard and chippy”
“Sharpening them needs special stones”
“They’re not suitable for the cooking we do”
“Stainless has the properties you need in a kitchen”

 

[DavidPF]

Pass.

I like to be able to maintain my knives.

If there's no conceivable reason to need to maintain them, then that's just being foolish.

 

[Jovidah]

I guess you could make it perform double duty as both a knife and a stone flattener?

 

[DavidPF]

I guess you could make it perform double duty as both a knife and a stone flattener?

Maybe...

If a new super-hard material is a real success in every way (including being affordable), sharpening things using the currently widespread types of stones will very quickly become obsolete except as a niche hobby, like building spare wheels for horse-carts. But that type of success looks very far off, if at all.

 

[Nemo]

If there's no conceivable reason to need to maintain them, then that's just being foolish.

No need for name calling.

I think it's unlikely that these things have infinite edge retention.

They are not lightsabres.

 

[DavidPF]

No need for name calling.

I think it's unlikely that these things have infinite edge retention.

They are not lightsabres.

Japanese-style knives need "special stones". You're not complaining about that fact.

Any knife as hard as being discussed would need other "special stones".

But claiming they'd be unmaintainable is just as silly as claiming VG10 is unmaintainable.

 

[Barmoley]

Very high alloy steels already need special stones and these stones will also most likely work for this new material.

Nemo is just pointing out that there is no need to be rude or aggressive.

We have some people that are clearly not interested in new materials and are happy with what is already there. They are entitled to their opinions. Let's be civil.

Most of the complaints brought up about current ceramic knives are valid. We don't know what this material is exactly. We don't know if it is chipy or light or anything really. Normal ceramic knives don't bend, this seems to, so might be very different. Likewise weight might be different or weight could be addressed in different ways.

 

[Nemo]

Japanese-style knives need "special stones"

In my experience, this is not correct.

I could maintain the majority of my knives with almost any stone. Granted, some stones may struggle with highly alloyed steels and the stones that we tend to favour here have nice feedback compared to other stones but... almost any stone will actually grind the steel.

Also, plain old sandpaper would easily deal with any of my knives.

 

[M1k3]

Bottom of a coffee mug has been known to make an appearance as a sharpening stone.

I'm curious about new steels and other materials. I won't exactly be first in line like these makers testing them. Would like to see where they go before I make any kind of judgement, good or bad, about them.

 

[Boynutman]

How about a sanmai setup? Best of both worlds. Cheap stainless core for ease of sharpening, ceramic cladding for ease of thinning.

 

[Knivperson]

Flexible ceramic knife - YouTube
Some more info on the knife

 

[Barmoley]

Sounds really good. Very interesting, thanks for finding this.

 

[Kentos]

It’s a material looking for an application that would be cost effective and profitable. Many space aged materials were discovered before useful applications were discovered. Teflon is one that comes to mind. It took 16 years to make the jump from lab discovery to pans. A knife may or may not be the best use for it, but until someone tries we would never know. Maybe a disposable razor that lasts 5 years? Commercial fillet knives?

 

[Jovidah]

Combination of hard AND tough would normally do well in armour playing, but I have no idea how it stacks up against already existing stuff.

 

[Barmoley]

There are a million applications for such a material. I am sure it was not developed for hand knives, that's just I minor offshoot use.

 

[DavidPF]

In my experience, this is not correct.

I could maintain the majority of my knives with almost any stone. Granted, some stones may struggle with highly alloyed steels and the stones that we tend to favour here have nice feedback compared to other stones but... almost any stone will actually grind the steel.

Also, plain old sandpaper would easily deal with any of my knives.

I'm arguing that the situation with the new material is not really all that different. If you were stuck with my grandfather's old sharpening stones (assuming they were in new condition again), you could get by - but you wouldn't, would you. You'd get something more suitable for your knives. There's nothing odd or wrong or exceptional about using the sharpening tools that work best for the knife material. It IS odd and wrong and exceptional to claim that that's some kind of dramatic disaster.

 

[TB_London]

Depends what stones they were the older Arks were great and I’ve seen campaigns to try and reopen the mines for the best ones.
Let’s not forget the world we live in was largely built before synthetic waterstones.

Go look at high end antique woodwork and tell me they were limited by the quality of the steel or the sharpness of their tools.

 

[LazerTornado]

I'd just be glad if I picked up a ceramic knife and it didn't feel like I was trying to cut using a doorstop made of frozen milk.

 

[Roman]

Hello! It is I, the Swiss guy

I am Roman aka KKnives_Switzerland who is responsible for this knife. I just was made aware of this thread - otherwise I would have chimed in earlier.
Is it a steel replacement? Eeeh maybe partially. I'd say "it's getting serious". Currently steel still has higher edge stability and toughness than this. I wouldn't make a bushcraft knife from it.

I made a new video with a description which provides background info and should answer many of your legit questions. Trust me, when I first saw this material in person, I was very sceptical. Soon some test knives will head out to independent testers and then we will see. I think I could ramble on and on for days like in these cheesy teleshopping ads and it still wouldn't prove anything. So let's wait for the tests by Youtubers. Personally, I am convinced by this stuff - yet the community and ultimately the customer must decide. My personal prediction at this point is that it will give knives like Wüsthoff a run for their money. Customs and Japanese steel knives? No. Maybe in 10years but even then we will always have nostalgic feelings for steel knives.

Now without further talking, here is the mentioned video:

 

[AT5760]

Thanks for jumping in and providing more information. Based on your work with the material, what applications do you see where it would be particularly useful?

 

[Roman]

I’d take that test result with a grain of salt

You should. As I just also wrote in a different reply, I also was very critical initially and I will soon send samples of these knives out to Youtubers. I / we need independent verification. Every innovator is biased towards their own product and I am no exception. These tests will tell us a lot. I don't think it will replace steel anytime soon - it's after all also the first material of its kind - but it could certainly give 120 Euro/150USD "retail store knives" a hard run for their money. The ordinary knife that Jon Doe picks up at Walmart for his BBQ next Friday is outcut by this flexible ceramic based on what I found out in testing. High end PM grade steels have higher edge stability and toughness, no doubt about it. That's why I am mainly using these steels and still will be doing so for most likely many years alongside with this material. The edge retention however, well, I think this could break any former record. But again, let's wait for the test results of independent (Youtube) testers like Cedric&Ada and see. In any case I think we are witnessing the start of something that will change many things in our daily lives such as prostetics, implants and wear resistant machine parts. Especially those.

 

[Roman]

I don't know him... Maybe "the results he's after" is "to find out things nobody knew before, and then after that, see if any of it is useful". People who insist on usefulness up front, rarely come up with anything really new. But they also rarely come up with trash. It's a trade-off.

That's why I don't insist

 

[Roman]

No need for name calling.

I think it's unlikely that these things have infinite edge retention.

They are not lightsabres.

They don't. I know many manufacturers of ceramic knives like to say or at least imply that. I do not because it is straight out not true. Based on my testing, which will soon be repeated by independent youtubers, the edge retention is extremely high though. How high? Well, I literally ran out of manila rope before I could feel any edge degradation. Whatever that tells you - nothing, lol. But it showed me that I am onto something big and I pursued it. Stay tuned for the independent Youtube tests folks. They will tell us if "yay or nay". (Personally I think it will be a "yay" but the consumer decides.) I will post the links to these reviews once they are out. (If I forget, please someone pester me until I do it or post it yourselfs haha.) One thing is for sure i think: This will severely put the typical "super market knife" under pressure. It just cuts so much longer without being chippy or brittle.

 

[Matus]

OMG, did you say Youtubers? Do you want to put the nice guy (Outpost 76) to hospital?. If the Maxamet did 1.000 feet od cardboard, this knife must make 10.000. I am sorry for him already

 

[Roman]

It’s a material looking for an application that would be cost effective and profitable. Many space aged materials were discovered before useful applications were discovered. Teflon is one that comes to mind. It took 16 years to make the jump from lab discovery to pans. A knife may or may not be the best use for it, but until someone tries we would never know. Maybe a disposable razor that lasts 5 years? Commercial fillet knives?

Taking thoughts out of my mind. There are so many uses swirling around in my mind. (Steel) knives is just what I make for a living, so naturally that is what I do with it.

 

[Roman]

OMG, did you say Youtubers? Do you want to put the nice guy (Outpost 76) to hospital?. If the Maxamet did 1.000 feet od cardboard, this knife must make 10.000. I am sorry for him already

Him and Cedric&Ada xD

 

[Matus]

Him and Cedric&Ada xD

Good pick. Some of the few knife reviewers on YT who actually use the knife they review. I am lookng forward what their experience will be.

 

[Roman]

I'd just be glad if I picked up a ceramic knife and it didn't feel like I was trying to cut using a doorstop made of frozen milk.

I chuckled when I read that - it exactly describes how normal ceramic knives feel to me. This feels... "different". Let's just put it that way. To me, it feels completely different than normal ceramic. It feels "oddly nice". But then again, as I said before, I am biased towards my own prodcut. I am currently figuring out pricing - I want it to be accessible so that people can try and see for themselves without spending an arm and a leg.

 

[Roman]

My understanding is that it is a major PITA as only some specific diamond based abrasives work. I did not follow up with Roman on this as I did not get the impression that this was more than an experiment. I don’t know whether he will have access to this material in the future.

I do have access.