8000 ceramic honing rod for Japanese knives???

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superk17

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I've been watching a video from JKI that didn't recommend using honing steel for Japanese knives. I know it makes a lot of sense to me why not to use the steel but how about ceramic rods though? I have found a company that sells 8000 grit ceramic honing rod? I am curious how does it compare to 8000 stone that I can use for honing? Is there any difference or am I just splitting the hair here. For me it is mainly convince factor, using rod vs taking the stone out. Any suggestions?
 
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The fine ceramic rod at BladeGallery work wonders on MANY different steels. It's fantastic for touch ups, or putting a final toothy edge that makes tomatoes tremble in fear. In my experience, the fine ceramic rod leaves a better edge that most 5k-8k stones for essential all kitchen tasks. It also helps de-burr a edge after sharpening and makes putting a micro bevel on a knife a breeze. It's a top tier product.

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=80228
 

daveb

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Don't like this even a little bit for JKnives.:nono:. Very experienced users may use one to get though a shift though I gotta believe stropping is more effective, less risky and requires about the same amount of time.

I do have a DMT ceramic that I'll use on Forgies or Germans. For JKnives while working I'll strop on a wet whetstone, usually 1.2 or 6K.
 

daveb

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For those having a "***?" moment I think he's referring to pics P Tiger posted from Chad Ward.

On Egreens initial post and then his enthusiastic agreement with Peter's completely contradictory (and much more correct) post I'm having my own *** moment.

If you're asking about using a steel, you prob should not.
 

preizzo

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I am using sometimes a black rod from knifeweare and it s working fine.
I don't have the time to take out my stones at work and the rod it s doing a great job.
Of course a water stone could be better.
 

KimBronnum

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Because it is partly very different to use a rounded rod compared to a flat stone and partly very different to hit the same bevel with the rod as with the flat stones, using a rod is not the best idea. I use a block of wood the size of a really bit stone with hard felt glued onto the top. I refresh/"touch up" the edge with this instead.
- Kim
 

superk17

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The fine ceramic rod at BladeGallery work wonders on MANY different steels. It's fantastic for touch ups, or putting a final toothy edge that makes tomatoes tremble in fear. In my experience, the fine ceramic rod leaves a better edge that most 5k-8k stones for essential all kitchen tasks. It also helps de-burr a edge after sharpening and makes putting a micro bevel on a knife a breeze. It's a top tier product.

http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=80228
Isn't this rod 1200 grit? If so I wander about its usefulness to de-burr the edge. I may negate all the work of the higher grit stones.
 
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Isn't this rod 1200 grit? If so I wander about its usefulness to de-burr the edge. I may negate all the work of the higher grit stones.
It's actually quite confusing. Although it says 1200 grit, it's in a grit system that isn't the Japanese industrial standard. I have seen the scratch pattern that it leaves under a scope at about 260x. When I compare the scratch left by the fine ceramic rod to 10 passes on 6 oz. horse hide with 1 micron diamond, the scratches are just the tiny bit bigger that the 1 micro diamond. BUT, the scratch left by the rod is much more consistent that the diamond no horse hide. So in my view, the fine rod is about 1.5 microns.
 

Mrmnms

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I'm with Daveb on this. Most people don't use a steel properly and apply too much force. If you have no other option and your edge needs help, maybe, but it's not a good long term solution. Although at times I'm tempted, I still go to a strop or high grit stone for touch ups. So much easier to control angle and pressure.
 

malexthekid

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I would suggest the risk is far greater than the reward.

While i am not a professional chef i don't buy the i don't have time to take out a stone. I can't imagine there isn't enough space to havr a stone sitting somewhere to be slid out, quick hone and Bob's your uncle a great refreshed edge.

Heck i can do it in under two minutes and that includes ruffling through sharpening stuff, finding some non-slip matting and putting the stone away
 

Pensacola Tiger

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I would suggest the risk is far greater than the reward.

While i am not a professional chef i don't buy the i don't have time to take out a stone. I can't imagine there isn't enough space to havr a stone sitting somewhere to be slid out, quick hone and Bob's your uncle a great refreshed edge.

Heck i can do it in under two minutes and that includes ruffling through sharpening stuff, finding some non-slip matting and putting the stone away
Done with the right tool and proper technique, there is zero risk. I've used a rod on 63-64 HRC shirogami with excellent results.
 

malexthekid

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Done with the right tool and proper technique, there is zero risk. I've used a rod on 63-64 HRC shirogami with excellent results.
But therein lies the crux of my point. Proper tool, and proper technique.

Fast paced kitchen, someone without the time to perfect, or purely just getting lazy and not concentrating... risk of damage.

You have to a lot more deft with your touch on a rod than a stone.

Not knocking it for you guys that can do it, just pointing out my point of view and the fact that the technique is a lot less forgiving than a stone.
 

Pensacola Tiger

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But therein lies the crux of my point. Proper tool, and proper technique.

Fast paced kitchen, someone without the time to perfect, or purely just getting lazy and not concentrating... risk of damage.

You have to a lot more deft with your touch on a rod than a stone.

Not knocking it for you guys that can do it, just pointing out my point of view and the fact that the technique is a lot less forgiving than a stone.
You can screw up an edge on a stone (or even a strop) just as easily by "getting lazy and not concentrating".

In the end, it's what works for you, but dismissing out of hand a MAC black or a sintered ruby rod is just wrong.
 

Leo Barr

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I hate repairing knives that have had ceramic rods used on them . They are fine if someone really knows how to use them but must people using rods or worse diamond steels do two things too much pressure often uneven so a hollow results near the heel where the stroke starts & sometimes another hollow near the tip making an ugly looking beak of a tip , then the angles are normally haphazard either thickening the blade or over thinning & micro chipping it(that is if they can carry that angle along the length of the blade).. The only person I have seen use a steel & if he had one a rod is a butcher that works in one of the michelin starred restaurants he does 3 or 4 strokes alternating from side to side & it is barley audible. The biggest problem with a rod is its profile makes such a small point of contact(like a stiletto heal on tarmac) to the bevel the pressure is vastly increased & most peoples angles vary too much . I think it is much better to hone on a whetstone much less damage and far more accurate.
 

LifeByA1000Cuts

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Currently testing my crackpot theory of "if any kind of honing rod can fix it without being essentially used as an imprecise and dry whetstone, so can a strop". Still amazed about the effectiveness of a thick newspaper, front bevels angles first then relief angles- just make sure you don't get a wayward chili seed or piece of carrot brunoise under it if doing it on the counter :). Will report :)
 

gic

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What about an XXF/XF DMT diafold as a hone, you hold the knife steady and run the diafold over the knife at the right angle. Seems to work very well and doesn't hurt the edge one bit. The xxf fine is 3 microns (6--8000 or so) and the XF is 9 microns (about 1500 grit equivalent on a waterstone)
 

ThEoRy

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If you know what you are doing and only do it when in a pinch for time I see no problem. It's the constant improper use that creates over grinds which is the problem.
 

Leo Barr

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I think newspaper on a flat surface hones quite well especially Japanese newspaper which supposedly has a higher clay content to western newspaper. The DMT diafold also sounds a good tool for honing.
 

panda

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i don't get why so much hate on honing rods, at least the ceramic ones. when used right they work great. i guess it really is very difficult to learn the proper technique.

i've used random pieces of cardboard in the past because it was convenient. i have gotten rid of my felt strop and use mac rod exclusively.

the grit level is less of a concern than how smooth the surface is and gotta be harder density than what you are using it on. in a pinch i've even used bottom of coffee mugs (albeit on soft stainless).
 

Godslayer

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Ill use one very very rarely at work, ill take 60-90 seconds and do it properly, hone on a table, roughly the angle i sharpen at 10-12 passes à side and back to work. Saying that now that i take multiple knives to work this almost never happens. If your going to do this, just take your time and do it right. For home id go leather strop for sure.
 

LifeByA1000Cuts

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"why so much hate on honing rods"

I guess because they act as some % whetstone (often of unspecified grit, without coolant/lubricant and with swarf buildup problems) and some % hone, percentages depending on what exact edge you put against it, and will allow you to make all the mistakes you could make with either tool :)
 
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