A Basic Explanation of Asymmetry

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I think its oversimple to think a couple strokes will turn a scandi V into a "convex" edge.

A real convex edge has metal where the V has already removed it, so "taking more metal away"
by blending V facets doesn't correct this problem...

Hope this makes sense, but this is why the mouspad etc work...
you neve get the V to start with that way...you have real convex.

Similar as you would never say a clamshell-sharpened double bevel (or single bevel),
is a "convex" grind in general (and not a wide bevel variation, etc)

the edge rolling style works also, though similarly... it helps to not over flatten ("V") the edge
before you start applying the method.

just my $0.02
 
Southpaw said:
My title for this post

“yet another reason it sucks to be left handed”
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No. 'Why left-handers better have their own knives'. Instead of looking for knives that are sub-optimal to everybody, better have a look at those with an inverted geometry. Very common ones are available with Masahiro and Misono. Left face convexed, right one flat, edge off-centered to the right.
 
Benuser said:
No. 'Why left-handers better have their own knives'. Instead of looking for knives that are sub-optimal to everybody, better have a look at those with an inverted geometry. Very common ones are available with Masahiro and Misono. Left face convexed, right one flat, edge off-centered to the right.
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My Masamoto is left handed, it is conveyed for my side lol but the KS is so damn sticky it doesn’t matter. I hear polishing them helps, or maybe I’ll just sharpen it to the point where it starts to be convexed, so it’ll be a 240 yani by that point;)

trouble with that is if I want a lefty one that if you want a high quality lefty knife you have to pay 50% more for it a lot of the time.
 
The thing I don’t get is the mark up for left handed grinds.
 
I have no idea about 50%, but a markup doesn't seem unreasonable if they're used to grinding right handed knives all the time. I mean, maybe it does take them significantly longer to grind it. And maybe they're more likely to screw up and have to fix the mistake. I don't know. Wish it was otherwise, though, for the sake of you good people. Hopefully karma will give us a great sharpener who only grinds for lefties...
 
You’re paying a right handed person to make the left handed version of what is essentially a right handed knife(single bevels).
I’m pretty sure the ONLY reason they even make them at all is that some guys are willing to cough up the dough.
 
Left-handed people get charged a devils tax
giphy.gif

It's only fair, you guys are so damn good at everything...
 
Kippington said:
Left-handed people get charged a devils tax
giphy.gif

It's only fair, you guys are so damn good at everything...
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Having a lefty work on my left side was pretty cool. This "new" right handed guy on my right side, sucks. He has lots of "first day" moments. Not that this advances the conversation....:popcorn2:
 
Wow thanks so much for this super clear explanation in a few simple diagrams! I've been reading about those asymmetrical grinds for so long, but didn't realize that they were intended to offset the steer.
 
nexus1935 said:
Wow thanks so much for this super clear explanation in a few simple diagrams! I've been reading about those asymmetrical grinds for so long, but didn't realize that they were intended to offset the steer.
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No problem!

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There's something obvious which I should've added to the original post - Steering during a cut can increase stickage on a concave surface.

If we imagine a knife is steering to the left (like in the following picture), a slice of food on the right side will cut into a curve which is much more likely to stick to the a convexed surface of the knife. With a larger curve-on-curve contact area, this can act to reduce the advantage of a convex grind.
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What happens with food release if I try to compensate for steering by holding the knife slightly clockwise inclined?
 
A quick q.- I have a cheap Deba, which to be honest I'm unlikely to use for any particularly delicate fish filleting in the near future. More likely the occasional bit of fish, some poultry (inc. bones), and ideally veg...

Would it be possible to put a bit of a proper grind on the underside which would stop it steering, and make it a more general-purpose knife? Anyone tried similar?
 
You could try it, but it would be like a bastard child of the two disciplines. I don't think you'll ever successfully get rid of the steer completely, that would take an insane amount of steel removal from a deba. It would weigh something like 70% of it's original weight, and would be significantly shorter at the heel.
 
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cotedupy said:
A quick q.- I have a cheap Deba, which to be honest I'm unlikely to use for any particularly delicate fish filleting in the near future. More likely the occasional bit of fish, some poultry (inc. bones), and ideally veg...

Would it be possible to put a bit of a proper grind on the underside which would stop it steering, and make it a more general-purpose knife? Anyone tried similar?
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Much easier to buy a heavyweight gyuto or a "western deba"
 
Oh and I was assuming it was a honyaki/monosteel deba. Wouldn't work at all if it's laminated.
 
Thank you guys, you have saved me a lot of fruitless effort! It shall remain a nice-looking, but largely unused, knife. Not something I have any problem with at all tbh... and feck it maybe I'll take up fishing, I am living on a beach atm :)
 
ian said:
Sorry, why would it be harder if it was laminated? They’re ni mai, not san mai, correct? I can see the concavity on the left side making it hard to ever turn it into a gyuto, though.
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I think that there are two potential problems:

1) the new cutting edge would be pretty close to (maybe within) the soft cladding.

2) there is a lot of hardened steel to grind through to get it there (although this would be the same with a monosteel).
 
Nemo said:
1) the new cutting edge would be pretty close to (maybe within) the soft cladding.
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I’m assuming you’d mostly just grind on the right (clad) side, since it’s ni mai.


Nemo said:
2) there is a lot of hardened steel to grind through to get it there (although this would be the same with a monosteel).
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and then a fair amount of the metal would be cladding.
 
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ian said:
Sorry, why would it be harder if it was laminated? They’re ni mai, not san mai, correct? I can see the concavity on the left side making it hard to ever turn it into a gyuto, though.
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I was refering to Nemo's first point. By trying to turn the ura into a convex surface to stop steering, you'd probably cause the edge to wander off the hardened steel and onto the ni-mai cladding.
 
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Thanks OP, very clear explanations.
I have a Honesuki that I bought years ago, used to be a 70/30, turned it into a single bevel knife, doing so taught me a lot about knife geometry. works great
 
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