A Bread Thread

[Michi]

pan de cristal
100% hydration

Magnificent!

 

[dchang21]

galacian bread, pan gallego, or knotted bread,
or the german name michi mentioned that i have forgotten...

i failed the crumb, underproofed it..

 

[Michi]

galacian bread, pan gallego, or knotted bread,
or the german name michi mentioned that i have forgotten...

Looks great, I love the surface texture! The German name is “Knotenbrot”.

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

There's so much to it, lol. Here's a writeup from King Arthur on controlling sour. There's a lot of good stuff here but it's pretty long. https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/bl...your-sourdough-bread-more-or-less-sour-part-1

Thanks for sharing this link. I’ve been reading the series multiple times and have been trialling different things over the last few months, and that’s been really helpful.

I’m back to baking 100% rye sourdough now, trying to get back to first principles after a series of disaster trial and errors with my cracked rye grains additions. So I’ve removed the rye grains and want to nail the moisture / crumb / cook time to have a solid foundation before I add the cracked grains back in (which seem to do wildly different things to my moisture levels depending on batch, size, soaking, etc).
This is where I’m up to with yesterdays bake:

So the crumb is nearly perfect, still just a little tacky in the middle, but to get that I had to essentially bake for double the time which has rendered my crust stubbornly hard.
My thinking for next time was reduce the input moisture levels, and hopefully that would yield a similar crumb with a shorter bake time? (the crust is normally really good with the normal bake time)
Yesterdays bake was:
Roughly 90% hydration
10 mins @ 240C (Pullman lid on)
100 mins @ 220C (Pullman lid on) - normally 60 mins
10 mins @ 220C (lid off)

So my question to any rye bakers out there - what’s the best thing to try next? Reduce input moisture ratio, then bake 60 mins at 220C? Or do I need to reduce moisture ratio and reduce baking temp but keep some time maybe 80 mins @ 200C?

I know it’s a trial and error (I’m up to trial number 7 so far) but just interested in whether a lower bake temp would be worth considering at this point, or whether I need to reduce hydration first and then tweak the bake temp?

 

[dchang21]

chocolate panettone. it appears the gluten is failing but still manages to not fall on the floor..

 

[OkayMode]

Continuing on my exploration of flours, this is from the much loved Caputo Manitoba Oro @ 77% hydration, this time with no diastatic malt added.

This dough was strong as heck, tolerated hydration like no other flour I’ve ever used, and was super friendly to shape as a result. The rise was great, and I’m glad I gave the dough an extra two hours overall proofing time throughout the process to account for the cooler weather.

I would describe the texture of the crumb on this loaf as very pleasantly ‘custardy’ - as in creamy and tender.

 

[More_Gyutos]

Continuing on my exploration of flours, this is from the much loved Caputo Manitoba Oro @ 77% hydration, this time with no diastatic malt added.

This dough was strong as heck, tolerated hydration like no other flour I’ve ever used, and was super friendly to shape as a result. The rise was great, and I’m glad I gave the dough an extra two hours overall proofing time throughout the process to account for the cooler weather.

I would describe the texture of the crumb on this loaf as very pleasantly ‘custardy’ - as in creamy and tender.

View attachment 359033
View attachment 359034
View attachment 359035

That looks great! The crumb looks good, some nice open holes but you can still use it for a sandwich. Nice job!

I really wanted to try to get some of this flour but I had a hard time finding some in the US. Anyone else here found some?

 

[OkayMode]

That looks great! The crumb looks good, some nice open holes but you can still use it for a sandwich. Nice job!

I really wanted to try to get some of this flour but I had a hard time finding some in the US. Anyone else here found some?

Thanks! To be honest i'm thinking about dropping my hydration down a little bit going forward to try and reduce the openness of the crumb a shade for optimal sandwich and toast use. Nothing sadder than a big blob of marmite dropping through one of the larger holes first thing in the morning

Most of us Europeans are sourcing Caputo Manitoba Oro as an alternative to the widely available US bread flours such as King Arthur, so unless you're wanting to try it out of curiosity you're not really missing out on anything.

 

[More_Gyutos]

Thanks! To be honest i'm thinking about dropping my hydration down a little bit going forward to try and reduce the openness of the crumb a shade for optimal sandwich and toast use. Nothing sadder than a big blob of marmite dropping through one of the larger holes first thing in the morning

Most of us Europeans are sourcing Caputo Manitoba Oro as an alternative to the widely available US bread flours such as King Arthur, so unless you're wanting to try it out of curiosity you're not really missing out on anything.

I hear you on the crumb.

Ah, OK. I do like Caputo flour, but that makes sense.

 

[dchang21]

I really wanted to try to get some of this flour but I had a hard time finding some in the US. Anyone else here found some?

i got some to make panettone, and i sourced it from the US. i think amazon sells it. but for normal bread making, it's too strong and i would cut it with a weaker flour. but you can find other manitoba flours from canada. there's marriages, manitaly. manitoba is actually a lab engineered wheat..

 

[boomchakabowwow]

My morning loaf. Very elementary for this crowd, but I’m proud as eff!

 

[OkayMode]

i got some to make panettone, and i sourced it from the US. i think amazon sells it. but for normal bread making, it's too strong and i would cut it with a weaker flour. but you can find other manitoba flours from canada. there's marriages, manitaly. manitoba is actually a lab engineered wheat..

Marriages is a UK miller, no? They’re one of the naughty ones who calculate protein in a misleadingly inflated way compared to North American mills.

 

[dchang21]

Marriages is a UK miller, no? They’re one of the naughty ones who calculate protein in a misleadingly inflated way compared to North American mills.

i don't really know. i moving towards using all italian flours. my recipes follow W ratings and it's easier to be on this system as opposed to protein values..

 

[OkayMode]

i don't really know. i moving towards using all italian flours. my recipes follow W ratings and it's easier to be on this system as opposed to protein values..

I wish all mills used W ratings to a consistent standard

 

[dehory]

View attachment 359034

I like the secondary slash you did at the heel to open up the batard shape a bit more at the end. Might start doing this myself!

 

[OkayMode]

I like the secondary slash you did at the heel to open up the batard shape a bit more at the end. Might start doing this myself!

I’d love to claim credit for my ingenuity, but to be honest, this was not a product of anything I did myself! I think it’s possibly a result of my shaping technique perhaps? Or that I need to slash deeper with the lamé to prevent fissures opening up elsewhere. Dunno

 

[ian]

Heh, I was wondering if that was the case! My loaves often split open at the end just like that.

Looks freakin awesome.

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

Still plodding away tweaking my rye sourdough. This week’s trial I dialled down the hydration and got in the zone for the crumb I’m after with the normal (not extended) baking time, meaning that the crust is satisfyingly crunchy but it yields, as opposed to last weeks brickette.
Reduced proving length and the dense crumb all working for me at the moment.
Minor tweaks for next time include changing the post bake wrapping and maybe just a feather back on the hydration.
Getting close. The family is happy with it which is the main thing.

 

[OkayMode]

Still plodding away tweaking my rye sourdough. This week’s trial I dialled down the hydration and got in the zone for the crumb I’m after with the normal (not extended) baking time, meaning that the crust is satisfyingly crunchy but it yields, as opposed to last weeks brickette.
Reduced proving length and the dense crumb all working for me at the moment.
Minor tweaks for next time include changing the post bake wrapping and maybe just a feather back on the hydration.
Getting close. The family is happy with it which is the main thing.

View attachment 359614
View attachment 359615

Looks awesome and I’m closely following this.

My girlfriend loves these loaves after some time living in Germany, but they’re not really that prevalent here.

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

Looks awesome and I’m closely following this.

My girlfriend loves these loaves after some time living in Germany, but they’re not really that prevalent here.

Same out here in Australia. “Proper bread” is fairly hard to come by, especially when you start looking for any rye varieties.
Glad you’re getting something from it though. It’s pretty easy, no real kneading / gluten development / shaping. Just more like working with thick concrete.
On reflection I think a lot of my problems with my cracked grains variants has probably come from over soaking the grains which then release more moisture while baking, throwing off the input ratios. I’ll try and buy some more rye grains and get back to experimentation in a few weeks time.

 

[dchang21]

Country loaf 80%
Dutch oven gives the best results.

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

Me again with yet another trial and error result. This time adding soaked and cracked rye grains back into my 100% rye sourdough.

Texture is close, but just a little too moist, so will adjust with more flour next time. It appears there’s an amount of moisture cooking out of the soaked rye grains, which I’ll need to account for next time.
Taste and crust is on point, just more finessing required to nail the texture.

 

[dchang21]

marron, citron, sultanas panettone

pumpkin and sunflower seeded sd

 

[sumis]

marron, citron, sultanas panettone

pumpkin and sunflower seeded sdView attachment 364950

so, i want to make panetone. i might have enough time and few enough pressing problems in my life. where do i start?

.

 

[dchang21]

so, i want to make panetone. i might have enough time and few enough pressing problems in my life. where do i start?

.

i'm not really qualified to coach you on this because it's notoriously difficult to make it right, but i'll point you to a direction. this is a link to a recipe that turns liquid starter to pasta madre. i assume you don't have pasta madre and you have liquid starter.



you need a lot of time. 1 day to feed and warm feed your starter into pasta madre in preparation. 1 day to mix dough #1 and proof it 3x volume. 1 day to mix dough #2, shape and bake. 1 day+ to hang upside-down to set it.

you need panettone flour. if you can't find this, use the strongest flour you can find, like manitoba. because panettone is a super enriched, super long fermentation process, the flour needs to be able to handle this in order to maintain gluten development. on top of that you are adding all this fruit or chocolate inside...

mixing is also difficult. you will need to monitor dough temp and not exceed 28c. you need to add ingredients in stages, and refrain from adding more until it is fully absorbed by the dough.

pH is also something to be aware of but not possible if you don't have a pH meter. just make sure your starter is healthy and pasta madre doesn't smell sour.. if there is too much acid in the starter or in the fermentation process, the gluten will break and your panettone will fall on the floor when hung upside down..

good luck. if you want to learn more, look for a panettone master instructor who may be touring in your city. this is the best way to learn. thats how i learned, i took a class.

 

[sumis]

i'm not really qualified to coach you on this because it's notoriously difficult to make it right, but i'll point you to a direction. this is a link to a recipe that turns liquid starter to pasta madre. i assume you don't have pasta madre and you have liquid starter.



you need a lot of time. 1 day to feed and warm feed your starter into pasta madre in preparation. 1 day to mix dough #1 and proof it 3x volume. 1 day to mix dough #2, shape and bake. 1 day+ to hang upside-down to set it.

you need panettone flour. if you can't find this, use the strongest flour you can find, like manitoba. because panettone is a super enriched, super long fermentation process, the flour needs to be able to handle this in order to maintain gluten development. on top of that you are adding all this fruit or chocolate inside...

mixing is also difficult. you will need to monitor dough temp and not exceed 28c. you need to add ingredients in stages, and refrain from adding more until it is fully absorbed by the dough.

pH is also something to be aware of but not possible if you don't have a pH meter. just make sure your starter is healthy and pasta madre doesn't smell sour.. if there is too much acid in the starter or in the fermentation process, the gluten will break and your panettone will fall on the floor when hung upside down..

good luck. if you want to learn more, look for a panettone master instructor who may be touring in your city. this is the best way to learn. thats how i learned, i took a class.

thanks. there will be a journey

.

 

[OkayMode]

Quite pleased to have gotten the bulk fermentation on this loaf right after the temperatures plunged at the start of the week.

I was a bit heavy handed with the water, so this was pretty high hydration - maybe around 80%. The crumb is a bit more open than I prefer but c’est la vie.

 

[Seemore]

First 100% rye sourdough not using a bread pan –

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

First 100% rye sourdough not using a bread pan –

Looks good! You’ve done well to shape it! Mine is like troweling fast dry concrete.

Here’s my eleventh attempt at getting the texture right on my 100% rye sourdough with cracked rye grains.

Internal texture is pretty much perfect. I think I may have to back off just a little as the crust got a little gritty where the cracked grains dried out too much in the crust, but were near perfect in the centre.
now for the bigger question about whether the family actually like this denser result with the cracked grains more than the plain rye flour only variant, which I’ve got to say, had a lovely crumb but just a mildly spongey tooth feel.

 

[dchang21]

this is an open bake, oven-off method. pre-heat to 250c with steam, place in cold dough then turn off the oven. finish baking by turning oven back on at 230c after 20 min..

strange rise and rough looking ear. no crumb shot, it's too hot to cut open..

there is also another method where you place the dough in a cold oven and bake from a non-preheated oven. haven't tried that one yet...