A Bread Thread
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Gotta start baking again. My starter has been languishing in the fridge since before we moved a month ago….
Ah sorry I should've clarified a bit. I was thinking of using a baking steel and something to hold water underneath (all of which I have already). So no dutch oven setup.
What size or dough weight batard can you manage in your Le Creuset? Also which size banneton?
I have the same 7.25qt size Le Creuset but I have damaged the enamel on a smaller one in the past baking bread and am not keen to repeat that on such a nice pot. Still good to visualise so I can get an idea of the dough size.
I've seen the Challenger and also the Brisbane Sourdough Pan but you're right that they are expensive for a single purpose item. I think that both are still too small for the big miche boules I would love to try one day
What size or dough weight batard can you manage in your Le Creuset? Also which size banneton?
I have the same 7.25qt size Le Creuset but I have damaged the enamel on a smaller one in the past baking bread and am not keen to repeat that on such a nice pot. Still good to visualise so I can get an idea of the dough size.
I've seen the Challenger and also the Brisbane Sourdough Pan but you're right that they are expensive for a single purpose item. I think that both are still too small for the big miche boules I would love to try one day
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
I use a 28 cm banneton, and the Le Creuset is about 30 cm interior diameter, I think. Basically, that batard just fits into the pot. Dough weight is a fraction under 1200 g before baking.
Maybe you just think they are that large? It can be difficult to judge scale from a photo. This one was made using this recipe for sourdough rye beer bread.I think that both are still too small for the big miche boules I would love to try one day
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Feed it once a day for a few days. By weight, 1 part old starter, 1 part flour, 1 part water. It'll spring back to life again in no time.
Luftmensch
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Hows that workshop going?
Starter is pretty hard to kill. You can safely abuse the stuff with neglect. I have given mine CPR several times. Wanna know how bad it can get? Here is one for the Aussies**:
International folk; let @Michi or @4wa1l know if you need a translation. Caveat emptor... What you put in your stomach is your own responsibility!!
Everytime mine has gone crook, I do similarly to @Michi - rigorous feeding cycle for a week (twice a day if I can be bothered). Give the yeast and lactobacillus a chance to outcompete any nasties and get back in fighting form...
** It was the last video he ever posted. I dont know why?
I think I’ve left this one in the fridge for three months with no feedings before. Been too overwhelmed to bother this time. But yea, I guess I’ll feed it now while I’m thinking of it.
The workshop is in the “buying materials for a table and sink” phase… hopefully I can get the sharpening station set up before too long. Had a couple long time sharpening clients ask me to do their knives and I couldn’t refuse, so I ended up doing them on my knees in the basement. (Yes, @M1k3, I know.)
The workshop is in the “buying materials for a table and sink” phase… hopefully I can get the sharpening station set up before too long. Had a couple long time sharpening clients ask me to do their knives and I couldn’t refuse, so I ended up doing them on my knees in the basement. (Yes, @M1k3, I know.)
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Probably got bored with watching his rotten starter come back to life…** It was the last video he ever posted. I dont know why?
The best thing about this video is the sound of the bell birds in the background
I’ve never allowed my starter to deteriorate to this extent. But it’s good to see that, if I lapse for a few months, it’ll be fine. I sure wouldn’t be squeamish about it. I bake with drain cleaner, remember?
Luftmensch
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I've gotten a bit rusty... I should get flour under my fingernails again!
In our rental we have a mediocre oven. While I can turn the fan off, it leaks heat and vapour like a sieve! I did start by making my bread in a dutch oven. But I have found that a large baking dish of water works just fine. I have tended towards higher hydration recipes which also helps with oven spring.
Before I preheat the oven, I put a metal baking tray (actually a Gastronorm) on the bottom level. I also stuff the top level with all the cast iron I can fit in - the idea is to give the oven a large thermal mass so the temperature is stable and does not dip too much when I reopen the door. When the oven is at temperature and the boules/batards are ready to go, quickly whisk them into the oven. Then pour some boiling water on the metal baking tray. At preheating temps it should hiss and boil off a whole lot of steam into the oven cavity. Whether you do this with one door openings or two... try to minimise the amount of time the door is open!
It would be nice to experiment with what volume of water to put in the baking tray so that it completely evaporates by about 20mins. Currently at the 20min mark I remove the tray so that the oven can start to dry out. I suppose that act also evacuates steam from the oven.
A final possible tip... at the end of the baking cycle, instead of taking the loafs out, leave them in the oven with the fan on and the elements off. Crack open the door a few centimetres so that the oven is forcing hot air out into the kitchen. This can help develop a crusty exterior. Just make sure you have managed the temperatures right so you don't overshoot your prefered crust colour!
Luftmensch
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The best thing about this video is the sound of the bell birds in the background
Bellbirds! Beautiful.
We dont have dem roun these parts
Have to drive a fair bit before they have a viable habitat again. In a few bushy pockets we are lucky to have the Eastern Whipbird. Not quite the same... but a similarly high whistle. I suppose we'll have to make do with all the boring cockatoos, kookaburras, lorikeets, magpies, currawongs, butcherbirds... the sounds space is so dull 
. Actually I shouldnt joke... the metropolitan areas in Oz have been disastrous for some birds. I never see finches/wrens in the urban areas anymore.I’ve never allowed my starter to deteriorate to this extent. But it’s good to see that, if I lapse for a few months, it’ll be fine. I sure wouldn’t be squeamish about it. I bake with drain cleaner, remember?
But thats the genius of it!! The drain cleaner keeps the nasties away!
I confess: I am in the same boat as @ian. I haven't baked for about three months.... though I did start reviving my starter last Sunday. It is pretty good now - almost ready to go. It had a pretty gnarly dried out cap on the surface and some small spots of either mould or severely oxidised dough at the edges. Like the video, I just scraped away all the bad stuff and used a small amount of clean looking starter to inoculate some fresh starter dough.
Hows that workshop going?
Starter is pretty hard to kill. You can safely abuse the stuff with neglect. I have given mine CPR several times. Wanna know how bad it can get? Here is one for the Aussies**:
International folk; let @Michi or @4wa1l know if you need a translation. Caveat emptor... What you put in your stomach is your own responsibility!!
Everytime mine has gone crook, I do similarly to @Michi - rigorous feeding cycle for a week (twice a day if I can be bothered). Give the yeast and lactobacillus a chance to outcompete any nasties and get back in fighting form...
** It was the last video he ever posted. I dont know why?
Wow! Mine wasn't that bad but it got quite mouldy so I got rid of it. This was over a year ago so long gone now. Thinking about it now if I had fed it several 5:5:1 (flour:water:starter) feedings then there would probably be very little of the original mix and the concentration of any nasty compounds would be so low. I guess like you say the new yeast and lactobacillus should hopefully outcompete any remaining nasties too. Oh well : /
I've tried using a very similar setup before for pan loaves and they spring ok but they always seem to come out slightly too dense. Maybe if I can somehow block the fan it might help? The oven does seem to remain pretty steamy when I have a tray of water in there but hard to know for sure.
I've also seen people covering their loaf with a bowl or deep roasting tray. If I can find a big enough bowl I should be able to make some pretty big loaves that way. I'm not sure if you're familiar with them but I would like to create my own version of the Sonoma Miche loaf. I think I've read in the past that it's around 2kg of dough. They're awesome and last for days. Screenshot from instagram.
I find that a lot of the time now I just upend my jar of starter over the garbage until it doesn’t drip anymore, then add 100g each of flour/water. I don’t feed very frequently, though. I’m kinda lazy, so I mostly keep it in the fridge and just feed it once or something before I use it.
Starter revived. Time for pizza and bagels.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
I found that it pays to feed a starter well for a day or two before using it. The few times I had lacklustre results with my breads, it was always because the starter wasn't active enough.
If I want bake on Sunday, I usually feed it on Friday night and again on Saturday night. Then another feed on Sunday morning, to bring up the total amount to starter to the amount I need for the recipe, plus some to keep. Then, about three or four hours later, that starter really rocks.
For maintenance, I keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week.
If I want bake on Sunday, I usually feed it on Friday night and again on Saturday night. Then another feed on Sunday morning, to bring up the total amount to starter to the amount I need for the recipe, plus some to keep. Then, about three or four hours later, that starter really rocks.
For maintenance, I keep it in the fridge and feed it once a week.
Luftmensch
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Hey man! Sure. Sonoma is our favourite
We get the soybean & linseed sourdough as our general purpose bread for the week:
Good to know there is a Sonoma in Braddon!
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Luftmensch
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Similarly!
From meh to ok:
I kept the original jar (left) in case the new starter (right) didnt bounce back... Having another look at the original jar, I dont think there was mould. It looks like it was just very oxidised, gnarly starter:
You can see that the starter below the oxidised cap (not pictured, thrown away) doesnt look too bad!
(Antipodeans: how active is your starter? The winter is making mine sluggish - to be expected. @4wa1l, @Michi how long does your starter take to double in size? Mine is maybe taking 6 hours in the kitchen? I can speed it up by incubating it in the microwave with a hot jug of water.)
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Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
4-6 hours sounds about right, depending on temperature. A lot quicker in summer, of course.
I've been maintaining a small starter and it's definitely a bit slower right now. 7g of starter with 15g each of flour and water. I'd say the peak is about 6-8 hours at ~18°C. I've been feeding it morning and night to try and get some good activity going.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
I found that making bread (and baking in general) is a lot harder in winter than in summer. It's dry and cold here in winter, neither of which are conducive to the dough.
I've heard of many tales of bakers adjusting recipes and fermentation times to account for the weather. Similarly, of sushi chefs who do the same, and also take into account the weather during the year the rice was grown and harvested. A lot of the sklll of a chef is being able to produce the same dish, repeatedly and reliably, despite the inevitable variation in availability and quality of ingredients.
I do some baking and, generally, I'm very happy with the results. But I quietly suspect that much of that success isn't due to my skill, but due to all the science and engineering that go into producing flour at the same protein content and texture year after year, even if this year's harvest was a complete disaster…
I meekly stand on the shoulders of giants.
I've heard of many tales of bakers adjusting recipes and fermentation times to account for the weather. Similarly, of sushi chefs who do the same, and also take into account the weather during the year the rice was grown and harvested. A lot of the sklll of a chef is being able to produce the same dish, repeatedly and reliably, despite the inevitable variation in availability and quality of ingredients.
I do some baking and, generally, I'm very happy with the results. But I quietly suspect that much of that success isn't due to my skill, but due to all the science and engineering that go into producing flour at the same protein content and texture year after year, even if this year's harvest was a complete disaster…
I meekly stand on the shoulders of giants.
These are about what our standard weekly boules come out like. I feel like I have some more work to do on gluten structure and crust for the adults, but these work nicely for the kids lunch sandwiches. Simple enough: 75% hydration with a locally ground AP bread flour, salt, olive oil.
And…sourdough “Challah”. Same starter as the boules, but of course enriched with eggs and honey. These are more of a show stopper in our kitchen than the sourdough, but generally reserved for when we have family visiting to help consume.
On the shoulders of giants indeed. It’s amazing what can be practically accomplished with a good source of ingredients (by true experts), some simple guidance from the likes of Mark Bittman, and willingness to hold instructions as more of a guidance than a set of hard rules (and adjust based on how things are coming together).
Miso-Mustard91
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My wife often questions me why I obsess over baking SD boules especially over the winter period when the challenges of temperature for a newbie can be hard to understand.
Ive tried my hand at sourdough for the last few years and found with the urge to constantly improve and gather more knowledge comes understanding and consistency.
This is my most recent bake (I dare say my 8th attempt)
Things that I have certainly paid more attention to is:
-starter needs to be fully active, used when it has a little bit more to give
-temperature formula is a must in winter
-an esky with a hot water bottle and small bucket of hot water can hold good temperatures of 24-27C
-baking schedules are not gospel
-gut instinct or “feel” often helps troubleshoot
-I kept a little journal of the steps through out the whole day and thoughts to see where I can improve
I’d be pretty happy to improve on my current loaves.
@Luftmensch if you like Sonoma I also recommend brasserie bread, personally I find the flavour of brasserie is a little more sour, their plain boulot is delicious, sometimes local markets have a stand (pre covid lockdowns)
Ive tried my hand at sourdough for the last few years and found with the urge to constantly improve and gather more knowledge comes understanding and consistency.
This is my most recent bake (I dare say my 8th attempt)
-starter needs to be fully active, used when it has a little bit more to give
-temperature formula is a must in winter
-an esky with a hot water bottle and small bucket of hot water can hold good temperatures of 24-27C
-baking schedules are not gospel
-gut instinct or “feel” often helps troubleshoot
-I kept a little journal of the steps through out the whole day and thoughts to see where I can improve
I’d be pretty happy to improve on my current loaves.
@Luftmensch if you like Sonoma I also recommend brasserie bread, personally I find the flavour of brasserie is a little more sour, their plain boulot is delicious, sometimes local markets have a stand (pre covid lockdowns)
I keep telling myself that I will start a bread journal, but it turns out I’m too lazy
Luftmensch
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True! Brasserie Bread is great. Sonoma are just more available for us. We can get their bread at our local supermarket. I went to a bread making class at Brasserie Bread in 2018(?). It was a lot of fun - we ended up with two full bags of bread to take home. The following week was bread heavy (in a good way)!
My next step in bread making was going to a sourdough class at Staple Bakery in the Northern Beaches (2019). It was pretty good timing actually. It prepared me for 2020
. If you are ever in the area, checkout Staple. The bread is great. The baker is a real hoot - a fun guy. He gave the students in his class a dollop of his starter... though I am sure mine has changed in the three years since I have used it!During the sourdough class he introduced us (or at least me) to Pepe Saya butter. @Miso-Mustard91 - you'll definitely be able to find it. @4wa1l, @Nemo... you should be able to get some...I am not sure how big their distribution network is? @Michi, I am not sure if they ship it that far north... you probably can get it. It is expensive butter... but man.... It is almost like a light cream/cheese. I recommend giving it a try. I think it is too nice (expensive) for general use - if you are going to crowd it out by other flavours. But freshly baked bread with some of that butter is one of those wonderful, simple pleasures.
parbaked
Senior Member
You can buy great French butter online. Search for Beurre de Baratte or churned butter.
For US made, Straus is local to me and excellent. Really good people too!
https://www.strausfamilycreamery.com
These guys have national distribution if you want salted, cultured butter. We use this sometimes on good bread…
For US made, Straus is local to me and excellent. Really good people too!
https://www.strausfamilycreamery.com
These guys have national distribution if you want salted, cultured butter. We use this sometimes on good bread…
