yeah mine was very sharp ootb, flied through many things but still wedged carrots
A Kono 210 comparison
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yeah mine was very sharp ootb, flied through many things but still wedged carrots
chappychap
Member
Just a message to say thanks to the OP and all the folks that responded to my follow up questions. I just pushed the button on a 240 SKD as it sounds very similar to the YS but with a couple extra minor qualities I appreciate in the steel and look. I asked for a slightly undersized 240 sample if they have one. Thanks again, this is a really great thread.
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chappychap
Member
Received this stunning Konosuke SKD in the post today. My interaction was limited to 'an inspection' and I can't wait to use it during the holidays. Thanks again for the advice on this thread.
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Congrats! 240? The finish on this version looks like a marriage between YS and tsuchime, pretty cool to me!
Nice, the finish is allot different than mine, that's more of a KU finish.
chappychap
Member
Thanks! Yeah 240. I umm'ed and ahh'ed on size for a long time, but went 240. As context/background on this issue I gambled with my first gyuto being 240, a Kurosaki Reijin, and I remember that at the time it felt like a gigantic sword. It was a little intimidating for a while. However over time I got used to it, and now find I only reach for a 210 when I'm looking for a 'smaller' knife. That's absolutely desirable some days, in a similar way that sometimes it just 'fits my mood and the task' to pick up a smaller knife like a 150 petty or 165 nakiri. But generally a 240 just feels good most days now. That said I have a fairly aggressive pinch grip so this also perhaps contributes to why long blades don't feel so long anymore. As a result every time I choose between buying a 240 and a 210 I end up going 240, for perceived value and versatility, especially when I think about how I might well need to end up cooking/prepping in larger volumes down the line - a 240 feels like future proofing. That said I can still absolutely see myself adding another 210, for example to use when travelling and using a small kitchen. I'm still lusting to rebuy a 210 Konosuke HD2 I reluctantly returned to try to be fiscally responsible(ish), after realising I had spent far too much than was reasonable on knives in one month. Its small size and lightweight felt like such a great fit for for that travel scenario, given I'd always have my beater with me anyway.
All that's to say the luxury / variety is something I enjoy, and whilst I generally seem to gravitate towards 240 for the every day, I can absolutely see the appeal of 210s.
On the finish, yeah it's a bit of an everything bagel of gyutos! Tsuchime kurouchi nashiji. I wasn't originally planning that much complexity in the finish but I really like it.
All that's to say the luxury / variety is something I enjoy, and whilst I generally seem to gravitate towards 240 for the every day, I can absolutely see the appeal of 210s.
On the finish, yeah it's a bit of an everything bagel of gyutos! Tsuchime kurouchi nashiji. I wasn't originally planning that much complexity in the finish but I really like it.
Interesting experience! This skd would probably feel very different than the kurosaki despite a similar size. Let us know how you like it on the board!
So the past month I've been using the MM almost exclusively and really getting in a groove with it. One of the things that I'm starting to appreciate is the heavier weight.
A few weeks ago I was carving up a chicken I'd cooked with the MM, and in a fit of laziness I went through a rib bone. When I examined the knife after washing it, I noticed I'd slightly deformed the edge at that point. You could see it as a difference in the reflection of the grind, and it made the slightest catch of the fingernail when ran along the edge. Not really wanting to do a full progression on the stones, I took out my Shapton Glass 6000 and did 10 heel to tip passes per side with what I consider a fair bit of pressure and sharpened out the deformation. The Blue 2 steel seemed to really like this - it feels more of a smooth slicey edge than a toothy one, but it cuts extremely well.
A few weeks ago I was carving up a chicken I'd cooked with the MM, and in a fit of laziness I went through a rib bone. When I examined the knife after washing it, I noticed I'd slightly deformed the edge at that point. You could see it as a difference in the reflection of the grind, and it made the slightest catch of the fingernail when ran along the edge. Not really wanting to do a full progression on the stones, I took out my Shapton Glass 6000 and did 10 heel to tip passes per side with what I consider a fair bit of pressure and sharpened out the deformation. The Blue 2 steel seemed to really like this - it feels more of a smooth slicey edge than a toothy one, but it cuts extremely well.
I'm guessing you were more lucky here than anything else. My MM's grind is very much a laser, despite being a bit thicker at the spine than other lasers. If it were to survive (i.e., not chip) bone, I wouldn't put it down to the grind or anything but just luck on the day. It's the thinnest knife I've ever had.
The grind on my MM is not a laser grind - the YS-M is thinner behind the edge and a Shibata is way thinner behind the edge.
If I'd had the YS-M in my hand, I would've changed knives. My MM gives me (mostly) the confidence to due stuff like this. It just feels tough.
If I'd had the YS-M in my hand, I would've changed knives. My MM gives me (mostly) the confidence to due stuff like this. It just feels tough.
That's strange, do you have a choil pic of your mm?
Just measured as best as I could:
MM - .20mm thick right behind the edge at the heel
YS-M - .15mm thick right behind the edge at the heel.
MM choil shot:
MM - .20mm thick right behind the edge at the heel
YS-M - .15mm thick right behind the edge at the heel.
MM choil shot:
So used the YS-M today to make a double batch of minestrone (about 10 quarts). Used a variety of techniques to chop up all the veg (push cut, rock chop and tap chop). Could've wished for a bit better food release (but this could be my technique) and was wanting a 240 for this bigger prep. Otherwise, it went through everything like a dream.
So the FM has been traded out of the collection - traded for a Kagekiyo 240 kiritsuke gyuto in white 2.
The two Kono's that have been on the rack have been the MM and the YS-M. 95% of the time, I grab the MM. I think this is due to two reasons - first is that I'm really appreciating the bit more heft of the knife, and second that the the slightly thicker edge on the MM makes me feel more confident to just bash at stuff than the YS-M. When I switch back and forth, the YS-M is still a better cutter but the MM is no slouch.
I also have to say that I've been quite impressed with the Blue 2 in the MM. I have no other blue to compare it to, but the MM is holding an edge wonderfully in my home kitchen. It hasn't touched the stones in a month, and I've beaten on it with rock, push and tap chopping and it's still holding up fine. This is against edge grain maple and beech cutting boards.
The two Kono's that have been on the rack have been the MM and the YS-M. 95% of the time, I grab the MM. I think this is due to two reasons - first is that I'm really appreciating the bit more heft of the knife, and second that the the slightly thicker edge on the MM makes me feel more confident to just bash at stuff than the YS-M. When I switch back and forth, the YS-M is still a better cutter but the MM is no slouch.
I also have to say that I've been quite impressed with the Blue 2 in the MM. I have no other blue to compare it to, but the MM is holding an edge wonderfully in my home kitchen. It hasn't touched the stones in a month, and I've beaten on it with rock, push and tap chopping and it's still holding up fine. This is against edge grain maple and beech cutting boards.
Knivperson
Senior Member
To me the FM (in White 2) is what I would consider a decent quality J-Knife. Top quality fit and finish, nice convex grind and handles as a good cutter. It was nice, but I don't think it is worthy of the hype. IMO, the White 2 is a let down as it dulls too easily.
The YS-M is one of the best cutters that I've handled. Just a fun knife to use. it is thin hard steel so technique needs to be good. Easier to sharpen.
The MM is what I wish the FM I had would be - same fit and finish, better grind (more convex at the heel, but moving to a thinner grind at the tip) and I *love* the blue 2 steel - keeps a wonderful edge forever in my home kitchen.
The YS-M is one of the best cutters that I've handled. Just a fun knife to use. it is thin hard steel so technique needs to be good. Easier to sharpen.
The MM is what I wish the FM I had would be - same fit and finish, better grind (more convex at the heel, but moving to a thinner grind at the tip) and I *love* the blue 2 steel - keeps a wonderful edge forever in my home kitchen.
Knivperson
Senior Member
So, of the three. Do you prefer the MM?
What if you could get a FM in blue #2 or #1?
What if you could get a FM in blue #2 or #1?
Since I've only had one of each MM and FM, if the grinds were the same as the ones I've had, I would choose the MM over the FM no matter the steel for the FM. The MM just has a more advanced grind. It has a nice thicker convex at the heel that progressively gets thinner to the tip. But the thing is the grinds may not be the same as these are handmade.
As for which knife I prefer, you have to understand that my preferences may be a bit different than others here. I'm not great at sharpening, so when I get a good edge on a knife I want it to last (so I value edge retention and ease of sharpening). While I appreciate a super thin behind the edge knife, I like a knife that is a bit thicker so that I can beat on it without worrying what I'm cutting. If I've got a knife in my hand, it should be able to cut through generally everything I'm prepping. I'm not one to switch knives unless I need to do something heavy (and then I pull out the ZKramer Carbon 250).
If the FM was in White, I would take a HD2 over it due to edge retention. I've never touched one, but based on my limited experience with Blue which seems to have good edge retention, in Blue I'd take the FM over the HD2 due to better grind.
I'd take the YS or MM over either.
Based on my feelings today, if I had to choose a single knife I'd take the MM over the YS. The YS is one of the best cutters I've tried, but given how I feel today (with all the other stresses in the world) it feels like I need to baby it just a touch. The MM is close in cutting, but it just feels tougher and I value that alot. I took my MM through a cooked chicken rib cage and I'd never do that with the YS. That whole difference may come down to the fact the YS is 65HRC and the MM is 62HRC. If I were doing a two gyuto combo, I'd take both in a heartbeat.
As for which knife I prefer, you have to understand that my preferences may be a bit different than others here. I'm not great at sharpening, so when I get a good edge on a knife I want it to last (so I value edge retention and ease of sharpening). While I appreciate a super thin behind the edge knife, I like a knife that is a bit thicker so that I can beat on it without worrying what I'm cutting. If I've got a knife in my hand, it should be able to cut through generally everything I'm prepping. I'm not one to switch knives unless I need to do something heavy (and then I pull out the ZKramer Carbon 250).
If the FM was in White, I would take a HD2 over it due to edge retention. I've never touched one, but based on my limited experience with Blue which seems to have good edge retention, in Blue I'd take the FM over the HD2 due to better grind.
I'd take the YS or MM over either.
Based on my feelings today, if I had to choose a single knife I'd take the MM over the YS. The YS is one of the best cutters I've tried, but given how I feel today (with all the other stresses in the world) it feels like I need to baby it just a touch. The MM is close in cutting, but it just feels tougher and I value that alot. I took my MM through a cooked chicken rib cage and I'd never do that with the YS. That whole difference may come down to the fact the YS is 65HRC and the MM is 62HRC. If I were doing a two gyuto combo, I'd take both in a heartbeat.
Knivperson
Senior Member
Thanks. Makes sense. It seems the YS-M is for me.
And in the end, there can only be one - the MM is the only one I have left
Given that I rated the YS-M higher, this might be surprising. The YS-M is a better cutter, but the MM I find to be a more versatile knife. I did more with the MM (like carve a chicken) than I would ever do with YS-M by virtue of the MM having just a fraction more thickness behind the edge. The MM just feels tougher, and when trying to cut down to one 210 - my core knife - that made the decision for me.
Doing the holiday preparations, I realized that I needed/wanted something longer than the 200mm that the MM offered, so after a few other knives, I found and got myself a MM Blue2 240. This is going to be core kit for the next little while. Happy with this as a solid solution.
Given that I rated the YS-M higher, this might be surprising. The YS-M is a better cutter, but the MM I find to be a more versatile knife. I did more with the MM (like carve a chicken) than I would ever do with YS-M by virtue of the MM having just a fraction more thickness behind the edge. The MM just feels tougher, and when trying to cut down to one 210 - my core knife - that made the decision for me.
Doing the holiday preparations, I realized that I needed/wanted something longer than the 200mm that the MM offered, so after a few other knives, I found and got myself a MM Blue2 240. This is going to be core kit for the next little while. Happy with this as a solid solution.
