A Laser Zwilling Kramer Damascus? Regrinding & Etching

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The 8 inch ZK Damascus is definitely a looker, but far from a performer. While I very much appreciate its appearance, it has been sitting in the drawer for a long long time. The knife has a great balance as a western, a thin spin, a good distal taper, and a decent core steel (SG2). However, the performance is poor: everything you cut sticks to the blade and the friction/drag is unbearable when cutting firm-textured produces. It's a pure looker.

Before the holidays, I had the ZKramer in my hand again. Feeling the elegant balance, I started to think: let me try another western handle knife, but this time a real performer. The search was difficult, I was looking for something rivals Konosuke's grinds, balanced at the bolster, western handled, 210mm in length, and stainless. When I finally was ready to buy, some drama happened on the seller's side and I didn't get it. Anyway, even if I bought the knife, it still wouldn't get close to a Konosuke grind.

So what grind makes a kitchen knife perform (like a laser)? From my perspective, the blade has to be thin, especially behind the edge. When that part is thinned enough, the knife will just drop through smaller vegetables, such as celery and small carrots. However the blade can't be too thin for two reasons: 1. it must have enough strength behind the edge; 2. it has to be thick enough to afford a slight convex grind for food release. Why a slight convex? A pronounced convex means your blade is thick, and that will cause wedging on larger vegetables.

Zwilling did a bad grind job on the ZK Damascus. The already thin blade has a flat grind starting from the spine. But that grind doesn't go all the way to the edge, it stops at about 7~8mm before that, then ground at a higher angle towards the edge. No wonder the knife wedges, drags, and sticks. Good news is the SG2 core is pretty hard so that it can afford further thinning.

All that said, I'm actually very new to thinning/regrinding. What's worse, the best tools I have for this job are some diamond stones. So this is a multi-day project.


The knife started at 277 grams. It sounds heavy, but actually feels nimble at hand.
IMG_3005.JPG

The nickel-stainless Damascus layer turned out to be very abrasion resistant. Initially I tried a Shapton Pro 220, but it barely cut. Even a 140 diamond stone cut slowly. Finally the 80 grit diamond came to the rescue, but I was greedy by thinning too much with it and that left deep scratches:
IMG_3014.jpg

I wanted to keep some original pattern and the "Kramer Zwilling" label, so I covered them with duct tapes. But to my surprise, the label (ink) was entirely lifted by the duct tape:
IMG_3018.jpg

So I went further (angrily) grinding all the Damascus away. The tip was ground as thin as I dare:
DSC_7702.jpg

The left side (in normal holding pose) of the blade becomes almost flat, and the right side has a slight convex. I had a better convex on the right side, but I mistakenly ground it away when trying to remove deep scratches (be patient and don't do that in the first place!). Lengthwise I did a differential grind which left the blade thicker towards the heel to keep some "workhorse" feel to it. The choil shot:
DSC_7703.jpg

The blade was taken to a 600 grit finish (lower grit scratches are still visible, but I have no more elbow grease left), and buffed using a Dremel. Before re-etching, I put a 8k low angle edge with micro bevels, covered with duct tape, then used my wife's least favorite nail lacquer to cover the core steel below the lamination line. Using Murray Carter's method (although I don't agree with his partnership with nanohone, his method worked), I brushed both sides with full strength RadioShack PCB enchant and left it there for 1 minute.
IMG_3028.jpg

Look at the etching result. Isn't this a dark magic?! The re-etched Damascus finish covered up all the scratches I was worrying about, and in cutting tests it didn't add any negative effects. It is unclear if the performance would be the same if the core steel below the lamination line was also etched.
IMG_3032.jpg

Finally, some beauty shots!
DSC_7682.jpg



DSC_7685.jpg


Performance-wise, the knife had a total reborn. The front portion is so thin which just flies through anything. The tip simply drops through celery, carrots, and onions, no force needed. The back portion is a little bit thicker. With a tad more convexity, it has a little bit better food release than the front - see below for the chopped potato, nothing stuck to the blade:
IMG_3054.jpg


The hand grinding was an ordeal, but I'm very pleased with the result. The knife now has the Zwilling label ground away, but a part of me etched in. Special thanks to my friend (he looks like Kurosaki san's twin brother), whose Konosuke YS inspired me about the grind. And thanks to my wife who always bear with me on my hobbies. Finally, thanks to all the knife people who share their knowledge and discoveries without reservation!
 
oh man you got a lot patience and elbow grease. Amazing job! I might do the same to my ZK 52100 and SG2 someday. I’m currently regrinding a Tad white 2 with Shapton glass 220 and after 2 hours the weight only went down by 1 gram. Such a pain...
 
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oh man you got a lot patience and elbow grease. Amazing job! I might do the same to my ZK 52100 and SG2 someday. I’m currently regrinding a Tad white 2 with Shapton glass 220 and after 2 hours the weight only went down by 1 gram. Such a pain...
A lot of patience indeed, I didn't need to go to the gym for those days... To my experience an Atoma 400 may grind faster than the Shapton if you have stainless cladding. Man after the job I'm seriously considering investing in, or building a belt grinder.
 
I feel your pain. And after using an atoma 140 myself I can’t believe that your knife touched an 80 grit plate with those final photos. Unreal! Nice job
 
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oh man you got a lot patience and elbow grease. Amazing job! I might do the same to my ZK 52100 and SG2 someday. I’m currently regrinding a Tad white 2 with Shapton glass 220 and after 2 hours the weight only went down by 1 gram. Such a pain...
Sorry if I am steering the conversation a single different but relevant way.
Op- great job. Inspirational!

HZ. For $150 you can get a 1x30 and belts. That has to be faster and less damage to a SG220
 
Sorry if I am steering the conversation a single different but relevant way.
Op- great job. Inspirational!

HZ. For $150 you can get a 1x30 and belts. That has to be faster and less damage to a SG220
Thank you for the advice. I live in an apartment so not sure if my wife will be happy with the metal dust produced by a belt sander. Will definitely grab one once we move into a house.
 
That's awesome, especially your finish! Just wow! That was a lot of work, I know this as I am currently thinning and regrinding my Takeda NAS by hand, using an Atoma plate. I would have never though it to be such a PITA...!
 
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Great job
3g is a lot, I did 2-rounds of thinning on my TF, big difference in performance but only lost one gram
 
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the etching came out quite nice in the end
 
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Thanks for the suggestion! I'm curious if you know of a popular sander commonly used by knife makers?
The 1x30 belt grinders are cheap for hobby level stuff. Pros use 2x72 belts. Over time the cheaper cost per square inch of abrasive saves money. I have a 1x30 rikon for western rehandles and general purpose work. Most of the 1x30 grinders our there look like they are made on the sane assembly line.
As far as belts, there are several good brands out there. I stumbled on red label abrasives and have been very happy with their belts.
 
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That's awesome, especially your finish! Just wow! That was a lot of work, I know this as I am currently thinning and regrinding my Takeda NAS by hand, using an Atoma plate. I would have never though it to be such a PITA...!
Thanks! It was so painfully slow, until I lost patience and hit it on a 80 grit diamond. After that most of the time were spent on polishing (140 diamond, 220 Shapton Pro, 400 Atoma, 600 Pride Abrasive, some soft touch sanding pads, and finally Dremel). I had some pronounced scratches left until they were covered by the etching. If I were doing it again, I would spend less time on the 80 grit and work a better progression to fully remove scratches from previous grits. I thinned too much with the 80 and I couldn't erase all scratches without make the blade thinner than I'd like. Good luck with your Takeda!
 
The 1x30 belt grinders are cheap for hobby level stuff. Pros use 2x72 belts. Over time the cheaper cost per square inch of abrasive saves money. I have a 1x30 rikon for western rehandles and general purpose work. Most of the 1x30 grinders our there look like they are made on the sane assembly line.
As far as belts, there are several good brands out there. I stumbled on red label abrasives and have been very happy with their belts.
Awesome, looks the 1x30 is big enough for kitchen knives, but the 2x72 is just so BA!
 
Glad to hear the SG2 Damascus was reborn after some work. I was disappointed with the original one I had tried several years ago. I had something similar done to the 52100 10” version, agree that the performance improves dramatically. Also rehandled the knife too
 
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Glad to hear the SG2 Damascus was reborn after some work. I was disappointed with the original one I had tried several years ago. I had something similar done to the 52100 10” version, agree that the performance improves dramatically. Also rehandled the knife too
It's a pity Zwilling wouldn't take a step further before releasing them to the market. But glad ours both worked out!
 
The 8 inch ZK Damascus is definitely a looker, but far from a performer. While I very much appreciate its appearance, it has been sitting in the drawer for a long long time. The knife has a great balance as a western, a thin spin, a good distal taper, and a decent core steel (SG2). However, the performance is poor: everything you cut sticks to the blade and the friction/drag is unbearable when cutting firm-textured produces. It's a pure looker.

Before the holidays, I had the ZKramer in my hand again. Feeling the elegant balance, I started to think: let me try another western handle knife, but this time a real performer. The search was difficult, I was looking for something rivals Konosuke's grinds, balanced at the bolster, western handled, 210mm in length, and stainless. When I finally was ready to buy, some drama happened on the seller's side and I didn't get it. Anyway, even if I bought the knife, it still wouldn't get close to a Konosuke grind.

So what grind makes a kitchen knife perform (like a laser)? From my perspective, the blade has to be thin, especially behind the edge. When that part is thinned enough, the knife will just drop through smaller vegetables, such as celery and small carrots. However the blade can't be too thin for two reasons: 1. it must have enough strength behind the edge; 2. it has to be thick enough to afford a slight convex grind for food release. Why a slight convex? A pronounced convex means your blade is thick, and that will cause wedging on larger vegetables.

Zwilling did a bad grind job on the ZK Damascus. The already thin blade has a flat grind starting from the spine. But that grind doesn't go all the way to the edge, it stops at about 7~8mm before that, then ground at a higher angle towards the edge. No wonder the knife wedges, drags, and sticks. Good news is the SG2 core is pretty hard so that it can afford further thinning.

All that said, I'm actually very new to thinning/regrinding. What's worse, the best tools I have for this job are some diamond stones. So this is a multi-day project.


The knife started at 277 grams. It sounds heavy, but actually feels nimble at hand.
View attachment 68493

The nickel-stainless Damascus layer turned out to be very abrasion resistant. Initially I tried a Shapton Pro 220, but it barely cut. Even a 140 diamond stone cut slowly. Finally the 80 grit diamond came to the rescue, but I was greedy by thinning too much with it and that left deep scratches:
View attachment 68498

I wanted to keep some original pattern and the "Kramer Zwilling" label, so I covered them with duct tapes. But to my surprise, the label (ink) was entirely lifted by the duct tape:
View attachment 68497

So I went further (angrily) grinding all the Damascus away. The tip was ground as thin as I dare:
View attachment 68495

The left side (in normal holding pose) of the blade becomes almost flat, and the right side has a slight convex. I had a better convex on the right side, but I mistakenly ground it away when trying to remove deep scratches (be patient and don't do that in the first place!). Lengthwise I did a differential grind which left the blade thicker towards the heel to keep some "workhorse" feel to it. The choil shot:
View attachment 68494

The blade was taken to a 600 grit finish (lower grit scratches are still visible, but I have no more elbow grease left), and buffed using a Dremel. Before re-etching, I put a 8k low angle edge with micro bevels, covered with duct tape, then used my wife's least favorite nail lacquer to cover the core steel below the lamination line. Using Murray Carter's method (although I don't agree with his partnership with nanohone, his method worked), I brushed both sides with full strength RadioShack PCB enchant and left it there for 1 minute.
View attachment 68496

Look at the etching result. Isn't this a dark magic?! The re-etched Damascus finish covered up all the scratches I was worrying about, and in cutting tests it didn't add any negative effects. It is unclear if the performance would be the same if the core steel below the lamination line was also etched.
View attachment 68492

Finally, some beauty shots!
View attachment 68500


View attachment 68499

Performance-wise, the knife had a total reborn. The front portion is so thin which just flies through anything. The tip simply drops through celery, carrots, and onions, no force needed. The back portion is a little bit thicker. With a tad more convexity, it has a little bit better food release than the front - see below for the chopped potato, nothing stuck to the blade:
View attachment 68501

The hand grinding was an ordeal, but I'm very pleased with the result. The knife now has the Zwilling label ground away, but a part of me etched in. Special thanks to my friend (he looks like Kurosaki san's twin brother), whose Konosuke YS inspired me about the grind. And thanks to my wife who always bear with me on my hobbies. Finally, thanks to all the knife people who share their knowledge and discoveries without reservation!
Great outcome and really inspiring. Don't know if I should thank you or curse you. :rolleyes:

Looks as though I have my 2nd project for the year.
 
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