A Question of Philosophy....why we buy expensive knives.

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dorianwidling

dorianwidling

Broken Tower Knives
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
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Location
Frankford, ON
Hello everyone,
I'm curious to know, on a philosophical level, why you buy expensive knives. Not what you think makes others buy but what makes you in particular buy them. There are so many people out there who just couldn't care less, and yet we here at kitchenknifeforums know there is an entire, delicious world those people are not experiencing.

What is it that makes buying expensive knives such an experience for you?

For me personally it's that a high quality knife makes me want to be a better cook. I feel like I have to live up to the blade that I'm using. When I feel that pull of wanting to be better in the kitchen I tend to fall in love with the process of cooking all over again. I look for new ingredients to use, I experiment with new techniques, I read more books (if you haven't read Tamar Adler's An Everlasting Meal I highly recommend it). And I think it's that process of falling in love with something, a process which all starts with the knife I'm using, that draws me to expensive knives.

But that's just me...how about you?

Dorian
 
My older brother went to CIA and bought a set of Wusthof which really impressed me. I was jealous. I wanted to use those knives too.

Fast forward 30 years and I ended up becoming an avid home cook. After using basic Farberware for years I visited a friend in Manhattan who had a set of Shun’s. I was fascinated by their beauty....and once again felt a ping of jealousy!

Within the next few years I bought several Shun, Wusthof, Zwilling.....etc. The new experience of having a fine tool to work with changed me. The better knives were more closely matched to my already well developed skills. Then, like you, I wanted to be even better.

A few years later I went to Seattle and walked into my first real knife shop. It was incredible. Now I could see the world I was missing that existed beyond....Bed Bath & Beyond or Amazon or even Cutlery & More.

If I could start now from scratch I would buy a few expensive top quality knives. Would only need four or five. But, I already own so many good (not great) knives that it’s hard to justify a frivolous expenditure that won’t noticeably improve my cooking skills.

That said, I’m strongly tempted to buy a Kramer carbon as they might be currently found on sale at several Sur la Table stores which are closing within the next few weeks. I actually called three of those stores but they only had stainless Damascus remaining, no carbons. You might have better luck where you live.

So, I guess that describes my limits. I will surely buy a $400 retail blade for $280, but I think the Kramer’s, though allegedly excellent, are not good value at full retail. If I had proof there was a $400 retail worth buying I probably would.
 
For me good knives sit at the intersection of craft, science, and art. I find that nexus a particularly interesting place whether it is expressed through knife making, chefs/food, landscape design, custom bicycle frames, or a long list of other disciplines. In a world increasingly overrun with far too much unrepairable, unrecyclable, cheap throwaway crap these little islands of striving for excellence seem increasingly valuable and fragile. I'm far from affluent and fully aware that there is a need for high volume, low cost, mass production but I don't think it needs to be quite so stupid and soulless as it typically is.
If you want a deep dive into the philosophy read some of the 19thC Arts & Crafts critics/philosophers like John Ruskin and maybe the 1950s and '60s Situationalists like Raoul Vaneigem and Guy Debord.
 
They function wonderfully and after I saw pictures of the knife makers at work I felt a sense of kinship with them as I spent many years learning a craft as an apprentice in somewhat similar workshops.

*I am not interested in the most expensive or collectible knives.
 
I appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a nice knife. Most of my knives are from American smiths, and I like being able to work directly with them and support their endeavor. I'm also at the point in my life that I can afford nice things, such as knives, guns, cars, and collectible pool cues!
 
I sharpen and I cook (home chef).
Knives connect those two pastimes.
I love the craftsmanship associated with hand made knives.
i can sit and fondle a hand made knife for hours ... it’s like looking into a fire.
I strongly prefer fully reactive blades ... I love fussing over them and looking after them.
My son’s the same and shares my passion for sharpening and knives ... we do it together.
 
I don't think it is buying expensive knives. The goal is to buy good knives, they just happen to be expensive. In the beginning it was a search for the perfect knife. As I learned more I understood that there was no such thing, but that some knives are better for me than others. As I learn and try more I understand better what works and the minute details, this leads to even finer knives. I am not saying that expensive knives are always better as at some point cost is not performance driven, but well performing knives that we consider as mid-range priced are very expensive for most people.
 
Started off with "I've been using this same $30 knife for 10 years, time for something new .. how hard can it be to pick a knife"
Had mild hope it'll make me cook more .. which it did. Though having more knives didn't make me a better cook, I still enjoy it more.
Quickly transitioned into trying different makers / grinds / shapes etc just as an experience, fun of discovery.
Then transitioned into an appreciation of aesthetics .. as once you get past a certain price point all the knives perform very well for a home cook. (just get the stuff you like grind-wise).
The very expensive stuff is more so about being a completionist / actually being able to achieve the very top of your wishlist .. granted I only have one knife on there so it's easier to justify.
 
josemartinlopez said:
Think the good performing knives here are mid-range compared to truly expensive knives, where the price is driven more by elaborate finishing and rarity.
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I'm getting the sense that most people here would agree with this. The quality/price sweet-spot is different for everyone, and I'm sure some consider the "name" of the maker to be worth the extra money. But they won't be getting a better cut necessarily.

LostHighway said:
For me good knives sit at the intersection of craft, science, and art. I find that nexus a particularly interesting place whether it is expressed through knife making, chefs/food, landscape design, custom bicycle frames, or a long list of other disciplines. In a world increasingly overrun with far too much unrepairable, unrecyclable, cheap throwaway crap these little islands of striving for excellence seem increasingly valuable and fragile. I'm far from affluent and fully aware that there is a need for high volume, low cost, mass production but I don't think it needs to be quite so stupid and soulless as it typically is.
If you want a deep dive into the philosophy read some of the 19thC Arts & Crafts critics/philosophers like John Ruskin and maybe the 1950s and '60s Situationalists like Raoul Vaneigem and Guy Debord.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more. I'm so happy to see a reversal of the mass-produced craze of the 80s/ 90s and a return to a focus on the individual, the hand-crafted, and the unique. I realize I say all of this from a position of some priviledge, and you're right that mass produced items have their use.
I've read a bit of Ruskin and admire crafstman like William Morris and the Pre-Raphaelite aritsts who reacted against Britain's industrial revolution by focusing on nature and craft. And I'm pleased that we who make knives can call ourselves their philosophical contemporaries.
 
dorianwidling said:
I'm getting the sense that most people here would agree with this. The quality/price sweet-spot is different for everyone, and I'm sure some consider the "name" of the maker to be worth the extra money. But they won't be getting a better cut necessarily.
Click to expand...
The name is surely connected to performance. But why not try your thought experiment limited only to plain kurouchi finishes, plain magnolia wa handles, non-honyaki, etc. You'll find a number of strong performers in the $200-300 range. You'll also find more strong performers, including custom makers, in the $400-800 range. Beyond that, surely it's not purely performance driving the discussion.
 
josemartinlopez said:
The name is surely connected to performance. But why not try your thought experiment limited only to plain kurouchi finishes, plain magnolia wa handles, non-honyaki, etc. You'll find a number of strong performers in the $200-300 range. You'll also find more strong performers, including custom makers, in the $400-800 range. Beyond that, surely it's not purely performance driving the discussion.
Click to expand...
Which begs another inquiry into that sweet spot for value. I very much want to try a carbon steel knife and find myself going around in circles trying to identify a good first candidate. The MAC pro hollow at $145 seems like a bargain but I’m afraid handle might be too small for my big mitts. Zwilling Kramer carbon looks fantastic but I can’t justify the full retail cost. Would love some recommendations in the $250-$300 range.
 
Welcome! Having more knife makers here is always a good thing IMO. We've lost a few who used to participate more, either they became too busy and well known or we just annoyed them too much.
 
I believe nobody buys expensive knives because they are expensive. For me, I'm searching for best performing knives in the home kitchen, expensive or not. They need to cut like lasers with decent food release.

In the search, sometimes I follow the hypes to see what people are talking about. And sometimes I may buy an expensive knife just because of its stunning look. However, some knives are very reasonably priced (e.g. Wakui and CCK 1303), which I find, for my objective, outperforming many knives that have much higher price tags.
 
What do you mean by expensive knives? A $250 j-knife, or A $1,200 custom?

For me, the $200+ knives were to help me prep for dinner, etc. a bit quicker than I could with the wusthoffs. The more $$ knives are because I appreciate functional art.
 
I am driven by curiosity, & natural instinct not trusting people’s claims until I’ve gotten my hands on it. It’s like when I see a crowd forming a circle on the street, I must stick my head in there to see what’s going on, can’t help it.

I catch & release knives, including some expensive ones approaching $1k but nothing beyond that, to complete my hands-on education. I only keep very few that I can’t live without, mostly based on performance. At times, it’s hard to part with some very special knives I’ve caught.
 
dorianwidling said:
What is it that makes buying expensive knives such an experience for you?
Click to expand...

Well, the actual spending of money on expensive knives is probably my least favourite part of the hobby... but I’m guessing that’s not quite what you were asking for 😇

For me, it’s about getting to nerd out to the fullest that’s the big draw. I really enjoy the process of reading, learning and understanding what goes into a masterfully made item. Knives fit especially well, since I’m a mechanical engineer by education and enjoy material science (and steels) especially. Add to that that time is limited with small kids in the household, and a hobby that has some practical application is about all I have time for.

Also, I stropped a TF Mab on a small J-Nat before making dinner today. Push cutting tomatoes with the knife gave me a bit of a fizz 😂
 
GoldCoastMitch said:
Holy smokes!!! Thank you. Never heard of this website, but I will assume it’s a good source. Are these new in box and first quality? How does this vendor sell below others?
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It's on sale is why...
Look through his site. He sells a lot of ZKramers, including re-handled carbons by Delbert Ealy.
https://homebutcher.com/collections/kramerOthers on this site have taken advantage of his sales.
These two sales were even cheaper
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/homebutcher-done-lost-they-mind.48080/#post-717604https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/kramer-knives-cheap-at-home-butcher-today-only.42249/
 
First off. 'expensive' for me is anything over the $400 mark. Honestly, why I 'buy expensive knives,' is for a number of reasons, depending on the knife, my desires and bank account.

Reasons are any combination of:
• because I can afford it
• uniqueness and rarity
• maker
• performance
• quality of craftsmanship
• hype
• value for possible resale
 
There's just something about how wood and metal vibrate. My hands get the same gollies rushing a banquet as they do playing guitar or drums. My ego does not...
 
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