About Hard and True Hard Arkansas stones.

[1315]

Spinning off a topic from the "effective grit size of natural stones" thread, I just got a hard ark from Dan's. Always fun to get a new stone to test drive!
A lot has been said about Washitas and Soft Arks, even translucents, and perhaps some of that applies here, but I thought I'd start this to share tips, and also contrast the hard vs true hard.

I recall a lot of you like the Arkansas stones, so please share your tips.

I put my hard ark to task on a Blue 1 core that was already sharpened, just because I had to scrape something! I went with water+soap, soft pressure on each side with reps of something like 15/10/5/3/3, AND!...... was less than impressed. So then I ran a 5/5/3 leading edge series with higher pressure, and THEN got that new stone-screaming edge grin. Seems that novaculite at this "grit level" level needs some coaxing to really dig in. Under inspection, it had more teeth than I anticipated (on Blue 1), so may finish with edge trailing strokes and a stone or leather strop to see what that does. Perhaps Blue 1 isn't the best match for novaculite. Was not as fine of a finisher as I would have guessed, BUT that's my uneducated opinion after only one test drive. Thought I'd post this before I used it again.

What do you find?

​

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

Dan’s Hard is my favorite Ark for finishing high-end cutlery. It is tied with my Ohira Suita.
I also have a Dan’s black and blue-black. While these are finer stones and will make very sharp edges, they completely lack bite. This makes them great straight razor stones but not the best knife stones.

I do recommend finishing one side to around 400 grit and the other side as smooth as possible. You will find some knives respond better to one side or the other. Also bevel your edges really well

This video is after a Dan’s Washita, Dan’s Hard, and a diamond strop.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

(Double post)

 

[Simon082]

I use ballistol now on all my oilstones so I can play with water and oil. I find oil allways leads to better edges especially on finer stones wear glazing can happen fast.

 

[1315]

I've experienced chipping when sharpening on Arks with edge leading sharpening. You you use edge leading or trailing in your sequence (or both), and do you notice Arks are more susceptible to chipping than other stones?

@Mr Kooby Shemayrew , please define specifically. Is the 400 just sandpaper, or Sic/Alox? And on "as smooth as possible", to what grit do you resurfacing with?
and Thank You for the tips. Fun stuff. Ballistol...I'll look into it. A lot of opinions on oil vs water.

​

 

[Desert Rat]

Spinning off a topic from the "effective grit size of natural stones" thread, I just got a hard ark from Dan's. Always fun to get a new stone to test drive!
A lot has been said about Washitas and Soft Arks, even translucents, and perhaps some of that applies here, but I thought I'd start this to share tips, and also contrast the hard vs true hard.

I recall a lot of you like the Arkansas stones, so please share your tips.

I put my hard ark to task on a Blue 1 core that was already sharpened, just because I had to scrape something! I went with water+soap, soft pressure on each side with reps of something like 15/10/5/3/3, AND!...... was less than impressed. So then I ran a 5/5/3 leading edge series with higher pressure, and THEN got that new stone-screaming edge grin. Seems that novaculite at this "grit level" level needs some coaxing to really dig in. Under inspection, it had more teeth than I anticipated (on Blue 1), so may finish with edge trailing strokes and a stone or leather strop to see what that does. Perhaps Blue 1 isn't the best match for novaculite. Was not as fine of a finisher as I would have guessed, BUT that's my uneducated opinion after only one test drive. Thought I'd post this before I used it again.

What do you find?

View attachment 307230

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Is that a Dan's true hard?
Looks like the same material as a hard I have of Dan's. Interesting thing with my stone is the white part actually sheds grit. I can't feel it on the stone and as far as I can tell it has no negative impact. It's very odd for an ark to do that. Does the white part of your stone also shed?

 

[Simon082]

I've experienced chipping when sharpening on Arks with edge leading sharpening. You you use edge leading or trailing in your sequence (or both), and do you notice Arks are more susceptible to chipping than other stones?

@Mr Kooby Shemayrew , please define specifically. Is the 400 just sandpaper, or Sic/Alox? And on "as smooth as possible", to what grit do you resurfacing with?
and Thank You for the tips. Fun stuff. Ballistol...I'll look into it. A lot of opinions on oil vs water.

​

Can you explain whether you mean blade or stone chipping?. Personally I use light edge trailing strokes and repeat on other side until satisfied and finish with no pressure stropping with edge trailing strokes again. Your most likely not keeping the same angle with changing stroke pressure and wiping away what you had done prior.

Allways check for burrs, though I find the finer/lighter I go the harder to find a burr but sharpness increases regardless for me.

 

[1315]

Hard ark. Fine chipping on blade apex. Likely me. Don't know about white shedding or releasing grit yet. Will check for that.

 

[nopomo]

Hard ark. Fine chipping on blade apex. Likely me. Don't know about white shedding or releasing grit yet. Will check for that.

Try beveling the edges/corners on the sharpening face. A coarse SiC (or pink alumina) stone will get you there in minutes. Use plenty of water so you’re not inhaling stone dust.

 

[1315]

Thanks. Dans put a beautiful bevel on the edge, but I may resurface and will run the edges again.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

I use ballistol now on all my oilstones so I can play with water and oil.

I am not familiar with Ballistol. It it water soluble or something, or do I misunderstand?

 

[Simon082]

I am not familiar with Ballistol. It it water soluble or something, or do I misunderstand?

Yes, it's basically food grade mineral oil with added soaps, alcohol and the benefit of scenting your disgusting smelly vintage stone with licorice.
It washes off easily due to being water soluble.

It's main use is for gun's.

 

[OkayMode]

Yes, it's basically food grade mineral oil with added soaps, alcohol and the benefit of scenting your disgusting smelly vintage stone with licorice.
It washes off easily due to being water soluble.

It's main use is for gun's.

I never really thought of using balistol for oilstones… might give that a go, just to mask the old stone pong if nothing else.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I've experienced chipping when sharpening on Arks with edge leading sharpening. You you use edge leading or trailing in your sequence (or both), and do you notice Arks are more susceptible to chipping than other stones?

@Mr Kooby Shemayrew , please define specifically. Is the 400 just sandpaper, or Sic/Alox? And on "as smooth as possible", to what grit do you resurfacing with?
and Thank You for the tips. Fun stuff. Ballistol...I'll look into it. A lot of opinions on oil vs water.

​

I have the Gritomatic SiC set that goes from 60 grit to 1200 grit. 400 grit SiC Freeform is probably smoother than 400 grit sandpaper. Obviously, you can just go higher with sand paper….. BUT…. The point being you want one side to have a little bite and the other side very little bite. Novaculite is a bit of an enigma and you just have to put in the time using it different ways. Some knives like one side better than the other. Just have to experiment with it.

I do recommend heavily beveling the edges. I feel like a high or sharp bevel if contacted can quickly take back an edge. Many people mention their Ark’s eating edges, in a bad way, and I agree. I have a Suehiro 20K and it is basically foolproof, like it will not take back an edge almost no matter how badly it is used. Arks will gladly eat an edge if your angle isn’t right.

Some people call it burnishing. There is a really good video on YouTube of DrMatt burnishing an Ark for razors. Basically you just want to get it to the highest grit possible (like 1K or 2K sandpaper) then polish it. You can use another fine grit stone, a cleaver, I’ve used a glass polishing pad on an angle grinder. Multiple ways to do it.

One last thing, the fine and hard Arks do not have a wide range of coverage. You need to have a knife well sharpened before bringing it to a hard Ark.

 

[Rangen]

Yeah, you have to condition the surface to your liking before you can really judge an Ark. For knives, I'd see how 60-80 grit does for you.

@stringer will know exactly what to do here.