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Advice: introducing different coarse/med stones in my lineup

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ModRQC

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I have only S&Gs in the med grits: NP800, SP1000, SP2000.

I like all three of them and am not searching to have "better" but "different".

The aim, if not fun of discovering new stones, is stones that are better in a finishing progression, or have other attributes my stones cannot really compete with.

I've been mostly looking at three options, and would likely buy 2 out of 3, or perhaps just one if the feedback seems to indicate it voids the need of any of the other two:

Cerax #700
Cerax #1000
King Deluxe #1200

And let's say the Cerax 700 would help me complete free shipping on a cutting board I'm inclined to purchase - so I'm really inclined to buy that stone too... :D But I don't care so much in the end, just aiming for the best advice.

Thanks!
 

daveb

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For a less expensive med grit soaker I like the Bestor 1200 a lot. Works well paired with a Rika 5K. Don't know that I would finish on it (or Cerax / King you cited either).

(And I know where you could get one or both :cool: )

Hands down the best med grit is the Gesshin 2000.
 

PappaG

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Based on your list I would add the Cerax 1000, because it will feel different then all the other stones you list, and different in a positive way. Having said that, the Cerax 1000 does dish. I'm glad I owned the stone - and yet can say, I do NOT miss it.... Its one of those stones that I think are worth trying out and are very reasonably priced for beginner and experienced user alike...
The king 1200 is a good solid stone, but I don't think it will add anything special to your line up.

Don't know anything about the 700...
 

ian

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For a less expensive med grit soaker I like the Bestor 1200 a lot. Works well paired with a Rika 5K. Don't know that I would finish on it (or Cerax / King you cited either).

(And I know where you could get one or both :cool: )

Hands down the best med grit is the Gesshin 2000.
Imo, Gessh 2k is great for a lot of edges, especially simple carbon. Just don't ever use it in a thinning/polishing progression. It hates cladding with a passion.
 

esoo

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Try a stone you can permasoak. While I like my splash and go (SP1000 and SG6000), a permasoaked Rika is an enjoyable change.
 

ModRQC

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I don't want to permasoak. I'm liable to seal an excessively thirsty coarse stone but for the rest I'll soak as necessary, but not permanently.
 

ModRQC

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For a less expensive med grit soaker I like the Bestor 1200 a lot. Works well paired with a Rika 5K. Don't know that I would finish on it (or Cerax / King you cited either).

(And I know where you could get one or both :cool: )

Hands down the best med grit is the Gesshin 2000.
Good to put finish on a bevel, or good in a kasumi progression towards the Rika for example.

I didn't mean for the edge, sorry for the confusion.
 

daveb

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Ahhh, I missed that part. I'm talking about edges. The only ones that care more about finishes than cutting are the Europeans :cool:
 

ModRQC

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Not more. But still.
 

ModRQC

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I have Rika 5K. The thread is asking about med/coarse stones.
 

Alder26

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I have heard good things about the arashiyama 1k. I don't know if you can soak it like their 6k, but if it's anything like the 6k it will be very at home in a polishing progression. otherwise I would say king deluxe 800 for polishing soaker.
 

mpier

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So this is probably a very unpopular opinion but I love the np2000k for my polishing progression especially after the 800. It starts out like a 1500 until it works up a slurry and finish up more like a 3000k. Once it works up a slurry it has a buttery feedback, not a real fast cutter but leaves a very fine scratch pattern and it works well with the Rika progression. It works and feels much like the green brick of joy but just a little harder.
 

ModRQC

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It's not like I'm not interested with the NP2K, on the contrary, it and the NP3K are under dispute of which one should I buy...

But surely not very different from the other S&Gs I have, among which NP400/800 ?
 

mpier

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The NP800 and the NP3000 are the best in the line up as far as pure versatility. IMO the 800 is a must have if you just love to sharpen followed by the 3000k, but I will rarely go to my 2000k for edge work it’s just a little to slow but it is a key player when it comes to the progression while sharpening and polishing my Yanagiba. It seams to have the right balance between the 800 and my Rika. The NP400 is also a great stone especially if you want a low grit stone that will last for awhile and set a great edge it takes a good long time to dish this stone.
 

Benuser

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Haven't tried the NP2k so far, my Chosera 2k still has a long way to go. Starts quite aggressively, getting smoother and ending indeed around 3k.
My only problem with it is with deburring. After cleaning the stone it's again too aggressive. While abrading a burr it creates a new one. But for the deburring function I have alternatives.
 

mpier

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Indeed I am actually talking about the Chosera as well don’t mean to be misleading sorry about that. When I have done deburring with that stone I have found that a slurry stone after cleaning is the key to getting the stone silky again.
 

jwthaparc

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I have the king 1200, I permasoak it. I actually quite like it. At least while permasoaked, it's got just the right amount of muddiness, while not wearing down too fast. At some point in the future I really want to get a king 800.

My experience with the cerax 1000 wasn't to great. The thing dished out INSANELY fast. The fastest stone I've seen wear away. I gave the cerax line another chance recently, and bought a 320, and it's great for refinishing knives after thinning, but it has the same crazy fast wear rate as I remembered.
 

ModRQC

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I’ve seen a lot of love around King when permasoaking. Since I don’t want to do that, I may avoid them, although I’ve seen nice results out of just sealing a thirsty coarser stone I don’t think it applies to the whole feeling improved out of permasoaking a med King.

Cerax 320 is indeed a disher but a great stone. I’d guess the 1K could be as good from various reports, and different enough for me. I however can pretty much guess what it would be feeling and use wise - so I may avoid them too, although based on the 320 the meds could be nice stones for bevel finish.

Which leads me back to square one. And I may very well just get going with what I have for meds right now - as my three stones seem to hit like 90% of general recommandations out there I guess I’ve chosen well enough and cannot do much to improve.

@Benuser @mpier you even done discouraging me of buying NP2 or 3K. Not that they don’t seem great if I had nothing, but I think SP2K - Rika - SP5K pretty much allow me to get what I want out of the edge of any steel I’ve got, and the Rika works well out of my NP800 for kasumi too.

I have so many coarse stones I can’t see what I would want to buy there. I’d give a go mostly to a double thick SG500 and/or a SG4K is all I can see of what I can source nationally, but wouldn’t expect to be amazed, if probably satisfied from all comments on KKF. So I’ll need to turn towards a wider market than what’s available in Canada, something like Gesshin 400 - 2000 or JNS 300 - 1000 seems very interesting... or else verse into either diamonds or J-nats which doesn’t really interest me honestly.

Is there something I’m missing on, or does that seem right?
 

jwthaparc

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I’ve seen a lot of love around King when permasoaking. Since I don’t want to do that, I may avoid them, although I’ve seen nice results out of just sealing a thirsty coarser stone I don’t think it applies to the whole feeling improved out of permasoaking a med King.
I do like it permasoaked quite a bit, but I recall it being a good stone even without permasoaking. It seems muddier for some reason when not permasoaked, so that could be a plus if you are finishing wide bevels. In my opinion all king medium stones have great feedback as well.
 

kayman67

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Haven't tried the NP2k so far, my Chosera 2k still has a long way to go. Starts quite aggressively, getting smoother and ending indeed around 3k.
My only problem with it is with deburring. After cleaning the stone it's again too aggressive. While abrading a burr it creates a new one. But for the deburring function I have alternatives.
How do you clean it? Mine also remains smooth and keeps the fine sometimes mirror like finish with no additional burr, but I use various dressing stones, not diamond plates and always low pressure edge leading passes.
 

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I like the King Neo 800 for this type of secondary role. It's not the fastest and dishes more than most, but not nearly as bad as the King 1K Deluxe if memory serves. It's muddy enough to make great contrast but not super muddy, basically an improved Deluxe. I've read it described as a splash and go but that seems like false advertising. It needs one or two minutes under the tap, improves with a ten minute soak, and takes a day to dry out. Worth checking out if you want great contrast at this grit.
 

M1k3

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Nice thing about the King mid-grits is they aren't finicky about drying. The binder is clay, so you don't have to worry about uneven drying like resinoid based stones.
 

daveb

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I recognize that you don't want to permasoak - but can I ask why?

My Gesshin 2K, 4K and 6K all live in the toilet tank, happily ready for use. Just have to remember them when I move....
 

ModRQC

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Well many King stones are readily available on Amazon where I have to buy a fuk ton of stuff, so I'll check further. I don't think I ever saw some King Neo there however (Canada). I've seen Deluxe, some "traditional", one or two Hyper.
 

ModRQC

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Hey guys, what are we thinking about Naniwa SS or trad, and Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick, in light of this thread?
 

jwthaparc

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Hey guys, what are we thinking about Naniwa SS or trad, and Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick, in light of this thread?
Can't give any advice on that. I want to try the green brick one day though. For some reason I feel like that stone would be right up my alley.
 

ModRQC

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Anyone has something to share about Naniwa SS/trad/green aotoshi?
 

Doug

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King 800 Deluxe is the classic synthetic matt grey kasumi polisher. I'm not a fan of the Naniwa "Green Brick". Has a weird plastic feeling feedback and leaves a big mess of green pigment. As the swarth breaks down it will polish too a finer finish so i remember not achieving an even finish. Gave mine to my nephew.
The King 800 Deluxe will leave a consistent finish if you use light pressure with some mud generated with a lapping plate. It may take a few tries to eliminate random larger scratches.
IMG_4902.JPG
IMG_4904.JPG
 

M1k3

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Hey guys, what are we thinking about Naniwa SS or trad, and Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick, in light of this thread?
I've only tried the SS 220. It was quite soft. Left a very matte instead of scratchy finish.
 
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