Alright, I need help finding a new daily

[chefmicd]

Hey there KKF!

Okay so I'm looking for a new 210mm gyuto. Here's an issue - I would say I'm good at knowing what I want for a collection at home. But as a chef in fine dining, it seems I can't make up my mind on what I would actually want to by as a new daily knife.

A lot of the work I do is rather small and intricate so I gravitate towards my petty a lot. But for new 210mm, I'm torn. I don't want something overly flashy. I love carbon steel but sometimes it also has its drawbacks in a professional kitchen. I've had chefs in the past ban them as they didn't like how it oxidized the food. I want something that has great edge retention, doesn't wedge, and can get scary sharp.

I think I've narrowed it down to four knives (and bare with me, it's a little all over the place)

TF Mabaroshi
Shibata Koutetsu AS 3
Konosuke GS+

The price point isn't as big of an issue as making sure it's a knife I'm going to love using every single day for hours on end.

Any help or suggestions would be super appreciated!

 

[tostadas]

Do you have a particular budget in mind? I think the myojin riki sg2 will fill your needs perfectly.

 

[chefmicd]

Do you have a particular budget in mind? I think the myojin riki sg2 will fill your needs perfectly.

Ideally under $500 USD. I think I can find a lot of good stuff under that

 

[Qapla']

What do you think of this? Stainless-clad high-Cr semistainless, so no one's going to try and ban it from the kitchen.
https://www.echefknife.com/collecti...black-pakkawood-handle?variant=40192380403899

A Hatsukokoro Hayabusa SG2 also sounds like it'd be your thing, but unfortunately they seem sold out:
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/hasg2gy21blh.html (It's at Chef Knives To Go.)
I don't know how the good the HAP40 damascus one is.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/hahaladagy21.html (As above.)

 

[timebard]

Myojin SG2 sounds like a great option. Tetsujin ginsan could be too but not so good in the retention department. Yoshi SKD if a flat profile works for you.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/msicard-cutlery-220mm-magnacut-gyuto.72188/ might fit the bill nicely?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Have @MSicardCutlery or @Knot Handcrafted make you something particular to what you want. A common stainless along the lines of AEB-L with a straight forward build should come in well under your budget. Both of them on here and IG and Michael Knot has a website.

 

[chefmicd]

All good suggestions! A lot of people I know at work have Takamura SG2. I never thought of Myojin.
Also not adverse going down the custom route. I have two custom knives on order right now

 

[aporigine]

Hey there KKF!

Okay so I'm looking for a new 210mm gyuto. Here's an issue - I would say I'm good at knowing what I want for a collection at home. But as a chef in fine dining, it seems I can't make up my mind on what I would actually want to by as a new daily knife.

A lot of the work I do is rather small and intricate so I gravitate towards my petty a lot. But for new 210mm, I'm torn. I don't want something overly flashy. I love carbon steel but sometimes it also has its drawbacks in a professional kitchen. I've had chefs in the past ban them as they didn't like how it oxidized the food. I want something that has great edge retention, doesn't wedge, and can get scary sharp.

I think I've narrowed it down to four knives (and bare with me, it's a little all over the place)

TF Mabaroshi
Shibata Koutetsu AS 3
Konosuke GS+

The price point isn't as big of an issue as making sure it's a knife I'm going to love using every single day for hours on end.

Any help or suggestions would be super appreciated!

If you don’t have a Shibata …
have a Shibata. His R2 knives are not the latest word in fancy, but they are as task-oriented as a F1 car. My Kashima 240 is a “keep until I’m dead and then an extra day” knife.

I really hope there will be a 210 Kashima one day.

 

[chefmicd]

If you don’t have a Shibata …
have a Shibata. His R2 knives are not the latest word in fancy, but they are as task-oriented as a F1 car. My Kashima 240 is a “keep until I’m dead and then an extra day” knife.

I really hope there will be a 210 Kashima one day.

I have one of his tinkers but nothing else yet! I just haven’t been a big fan of the k tip for pro use. I’ve found they always draw extra attention. But I really want to own one for personal use!

 

[tostadas]

I have one of his tinkers but nothing else yet! I just haven’t been a big fan of the k tip for pro use. I’ve found they always draw extra attention. But I really want to own one for personal use!

Shibatas are excellent but I agree on the k tip. Even as just a home user I'm wary about snapping it off. Not specific to shibata but k tips in general

 

[Blumbo]

If you think you’d like knives with slightly thicker spines and a confident feeling on the board without sacrificing performance, it’s hard to go wrong with yoshikane skd or Nihei sld - I’d recommend them especially if you like slightly shorter and flatter profiles

 

[chefmicd]

If you think you’d like knives with slightly thicker spines and a confident feeling on the board without sacrificing performance, it’s hard to go wrong with yoshikane skd or Nihei sld - I’d recommend them especially if you like slightly shorter and flatter profiles

I find myself push cutting more than anything so a flat profile would be really nice!

 

[aporigine]

I have one of his tinkers but nothing else yet! I just haven’t been a big fan of the k tip for pro use. I’ve found they always draw extra attention. But I really want to own one for personal use!

I frankly loathe K-tips. However I think the Battleship has a future in my kitchen.

The one thing that could change my mind on that is a Kashima in the 190-210mm edge length class.

 

[iimi]

Second the yoshi or nihei, especially if you're not doing heavy prep with them (and since it's a 210 in a fine dine setting, I'm assuming more of a line knife/small prep projects anyways). At the same time, also second the Msicard -- my daily for the past year was an aeb-l custom from him made in the exact profile and thickness/grind I wanted, should be way under your budget and you can ask for exactly what you want.

 

[chefmicd]

I think k tips are really unique as a collector item but they’re really fragile. I stopped taking my kurosaki yu to work for that reason. It was also a knife that drew a lot of attention as well from line cooks. Not always a good thing

I frankly loathe K-tips. However I think the Battleship has a future in my kitchen.

The one thing that could change my mind on that is a Kashima in the 190-210mm edge length class

 

[Cliff]

I'd think Myojin or Takamura. How do you feel about retention? If that's an issue, what about Sukenari Hap40? They're not as thin, but they're tough and hold a great edge forever. I also have a Y Kato AS Nakiri I think is incredibly precise, and the edge holds very, very well.

 

[aporigine]

I'd think Myojin or Takamura. How do you feel about retention? If that's an issue, what about Sukenari Hap40? They're not as thin, but they're tough and hold a great edge forever. I also have a Y Kato AS Nakiri I think is incredibly precise, and the edge holds very, very well.

I have a Fu-rin-ka-zan (Sukenari) 150 petty that gets a lot of play. “Sharpen annually.”

 

[Delat]

The Shibata is certainly a laser that’ll do great for detailed prep work, but the spine is fairly narrow at the pinch so may not be comfortable for all-day use (similar to the Takamura I believe). Do you have a thin spine laser in your collection already to be sure you’ll find it comfortable?

The Myojin feels a little more polished and substantial, and a little more comfortable than the shibata. But is still also fairly thin at the pinch although a hair thicker than the Shibata. Of the two I would go with the Myojin. Yoshikane is very similar in feel to the Myojin but with a flatter profile and to me feels a tiny bit more fragile than the Myojin; you can’t go wrong with either.

If you like a more comfortable and substantial grip at the pinch, like >4mm, then in your price range look at Henry Hyde and Eddworks. They both make very thin knives although not quite as thin as Myojin. But they’re so thin that they’re easy to thin/tune and very little would be required (assuming you’d even want them as thin BTE as Myojin or Shibata, that is). Eddworks you’d have to find used on BST unless you’re ok waiting a year for a custom, Hyde I don’t know what his status is for customs. I don’t have a ton of experience with my Hyde and Eddworks yet but they both feel much more solid and robust than my Myojin.

One final one to consider if you can score a drop is Birgersson. I basically stopped using my Myojin and Yoshikane once I got a Birgersson.

 

[Mikeadunne]

Absolutely shameless plug

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/konosuke-hd2-225mm-gyuto.72193/#post-1118216

 

[chefmicd]

Everyone seems to be passing over the TF option as well. I know it’s not laser territory but do ya’ll think it wouldn’t do well in a commercial kitchen? I also know they can be a bit rough around the edges

The Shibata is certainly a laser that’ll do great for detailed prep work, but the spine is fairly narrow at the pinch so may not be comfortable for all-day use (similar to the Takamura I believe). Do you have a thin spine laser in your collection already to be sure you’ll find it comfortable?

The Myojin feels a little more polished and substantial, and a little more comfortable than the shibata. But is still also fairly thin at the pinch although a hair thicker than the Shibata. Of the two I would go with the Myojin. Yoshikane is very similar in feel to the Myojin but with a flatter profile and to me feels a tiny bit more fragile than the Myojin; you can’t go wrong with either.

If you like a more comfortable and substantial grip at the pinch, like >4mm, then in your price range look at Henry Hyde and Eddworks. They both make very thin knives although not quite as thin as Myojin. But they’re so thin that they’re easy to thin/tune and very little would be required (assuming you’d even want them as thin BTE as Myojin or Shibata, that is). Eddworks you’d have to find used on BST unless you’re ok waiting a year for a custom, Hyde I don’t know what his status is for customs. I don’t have a ton of experience with my Hyde and Eddworks yet but they both feel much more solid and robust than my Myojin.

One final one to consider if you can score a drop is Birgersson. I basically stopped using my Myojin and Yoshikane once I got a Birgersson.

thanks for this explanation! I have a takamura chromax and two yu kurosaki hap40s. Both very laser-like. I enjoy them but they can be a bit uncomfortable after a while. My biggest concern is that they’re so thin I get worried about over using them. Or worse- someone else in the kitchen picking them up and misusing them. I guess the same issues could be true with a Shibata

I actually haven’t heard much about Birgersson other than they’re hard to get haha

 

[Yoshi]

I've got a nihei skd. Imo it's better value for money than Yoshikane, as Yoshikane is not taking a cut (he worked at Yoshikane for quite a few years)

The design seems mildly different as well. His own line has thicker spine, better f and f and slightly less of a doorstopper heel.

Myojin sg2 is definitely thinner, but in my experience still much thicker than a shibata

Can't sing higher praises about Eddworks. Even if you are not getting one now, just get on his custom books, it'll be more than a year wait now, but he'll yeah totally worth it

 

[M1k3]

Takamura SG2/R2 (the red handle one)

 

[Corradobrit1]

Everyone seems to be passing over the TF option as well. I know it’s not laser territory but do ya’ll think it wouldn’t do well in a commercial kitchen? I also know they can be a bit rough around the edges

thanks for this explanation! I have a takamura chromax and two yu kurosaki hap40s. Both very laser-like. I enjoy them but they can be a bit uncomfortable after a while. My biggest concern is that they’re so thin I get worried about over using them. Or worse- someone else in the kitchen picking them up and misusing them. I guess the same issues could be true with a Shibata

I actually haven’t heard much about Birgersson other than they’re hard to get haha

Count me in the TF camp. Get a Wa handled version and most of the hyped F&F issues disappear. Personally speaking the combination of SS cladding and W#1 core is best of both worlds for your application. Seriously consider the Nashiji line if you want something more towards the laserish end of the spectrum.

 

[chefmicd]

Takamura SG2/R2 (the red handle one)

Im not exaggerating when I say half the kitchen has that. Great performing knife but I’ve grown a dislike for seeing it every day haha. Also maybe I’m alone but… I’m actually not a fan of the red handle? Hot take maybe.

 

[Jovidah]

If you're looking for lasery stainless I'd at least take Ashi / Gesshin Ginga into consideration.

 

[chefmicd]

If you're looking for lasery stainless I'd at least take Ashi / Gesshin Ginga into consideration.

I’m actually on a waitlist for an Ashi. Could be over a year they said. In the meantime I picked myself up a Hitohira Ashi 210 petty that I use almost every day as a small suji for small protein portioning before plating. Great knife!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Another option...

https://www.epicedge.com/shopdispla...xact=&atleast=&without=&cprice=&searchfields=

The PM (SRS-15) version may fit your needs. I have the 180 in AS and it is really well done. Just shy of what some would deem a true laser but only by a hair.

 

[chefmicd]

Might be a silly question but how sharp can Yoshikane get? I’ve heard conflicting things about them for a while but I think I would like the profile. Seems very nice the more I look at it.
In the meantime I’ve also reached out to @MSicardCutlery so I’m excited to see him get back to me!

 

[Cliff]

What are you looking at? I assume the white. no. 2 can get as sharp as anything. I have a couple of the SKD. That will split atoms, but it's a toothier sharp than most pure carbons I have. I have and love the 210 K-tip gyuto. It performs as well as anything I have, but it feels a bit fragile. It's also very light. If I wanted perfect brunoise, I'd take it as my first choice. For bigger prep jobs, though, I'd take something with more oomph.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Might be a silly question but how sharp can Yoshikane get? I’ve heard conflicting things about them for a while but I think I would like the profile. Seems very nice the more I look at it.
In the meantime I’ve also reached out to @MSicardCutlery so I’m excited to see him get back to me!

I had a Yoshikane SKD bunka and had no issues with sharpening.

Matt makes awesome knives and is a great guy. In no way would I discourage working with him. I have several knives from Matt and no doubt he will provide you something excellent. I would only offer that Michael Knot is a former pro chef so he may have some unique insight to help you understand what it is you really want but are having trouble pinpointing. Again, not detracting from Matt at all just tossing that out out there as something to consider since you seem a little unsure of the exact properties you're after.