Ankerson's comprehensive take on edge retention

[2bApical?]

As far as silica in cellulosic plant materials harming knife edges, BAMBOO has more of this than most woods do, up to 5% by weight. Yet there are plenty of cutting boards made from bamboo, I have not heard of these having a bad reputation for knife wear. Does it?

https://www2.palomar.edu/users/warmstrong/ecoph39.htm

If not, silica content may not be the major factor in some types of cutting boards excessive wear on knife edges.

It's not hard to find complaints on the net in regards to bamboo's effect on the edge. Here is a excerpt from Kitchen Knife Guru: “Maple is far more consistent in hardness whereas bamboo is super hard at the nodes and soft in between,” my sharpening guy said. The nodes will kill you. Or the soft in between. Or, more accurately, the uneven wear between them tends to shred the edge of your blade. Especially if you’re doing a whole lot of chopping."

 

[podzap]

Bamboo might have more silica than teak but the fibers are also very tough and strongly resist scoring. If you can't score the surface easily then you aren't dragging your edge through a silica impregnated vee shape.

Teak, acacia, etc are much softer. Try this for a test: buy a few sets of wooden spoons for cooking and inspect the working ends after two months of use. Teak and acacia will have deformed, bloomed edges after two months of scraping the bottom of pans, whereas BAMBOO will have unfrayed and unsmashed working ends after six or seven years of use. With bamboo, small chunks of fibres may eventually break off from the ends but even that is minimal.

I would say that, yes, silica is a major factor regarding edge wear in e.g. teak boards. However, in harder boards like bamboo the edge never makes it to the silica because the surface fibres themselves are so tough and they themselves are responsible for dulling.

But what do I know? I also don't put orange slices into my G&T.

 

[daveb]

I've not seen the particulars of this "test" but ATK over the years has demonstrated they don't set up t&e well. Citing them as a source says more about the poster than it does about teak boards.

 

[Michi]

It really would be interesting to take, say, a bunch of white steel knives, and another bunch of, say, VG10 or similar, sharpen them all up to the same angle and polish, and then run each of them at a set amount of pressure over a different type of board. Plastic, rubber, end grain and edge grain hardwoods, such as bamboo, teak, cherry, etc. Count the number of strokes until the board doesn't cut something properly anymore (preferably tomato instead of paper).

I'm sure it would be possible to eventually figure out fairly objectively which board does what in terms of edge retention. But it also would be a very elaborate and time-consuming test

I'm currently using a bamboo edge grain board for various reasons. It's nice in terms of looks, weight, and durability, but I'm not impressed with how quickly it dulls my knives. (Or, at least, I think that my knives are getting duller more quickly than I would like; perception bias can really distort things…) I'll be replacing that board at some point soonish with an edge grain board made out of a different wood. (I'm open to suggestions as to what wood might be a good choice.) I can't use end grain because I need a large (roughly 23" x 20") board, and the thickness of end grain in that size is prohibitive in my case; it would raise the cutting height too much.

If I notice any difference in edge retention, I'll report back. Or I just might carry out that test with, say, two different knives on each of the boards. At least that would tell me whether the replacement board is any kinder to my edges…

 

[Barmoley]

Not sure how or why this turned into a cutting board discussion thread, but hey why not. If you haven't seen this thread https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/hi-soft-cutting-board-feedback.40406/ check it out. It has good info in it.

Hinoki cutting boards are very gentle on the edges, much more so than even end grain maple. As was mentioned in the other thread they have their negatives, such as warping and discoloration, but if you don't care about discoloration they are very nice, light and easy on the edges. Or get the hi-soft. In any case bamboo and teak in general are not the best for edges, this has been pretty well documented on this forum and others. At one point I saw someone making an end-grain bamboo board and that was supposed to be better on edges and have some of the bamboo benefits. I never tried such a board and at the time thought that it would be down to construction and the glue/resin used, as a lot more glue would have to be used.

 

[2bApical?]

It really would be interesting to take, say, a bunch of white steel knives, and another bunch of, say, VG10 or similar, sharpen them all up to the same angle and polish, and then run each of them at a set amount of pressure over a different type of board. Plastic, rubber, end grain and edge grain hardwoods, such as bamboo, teak, cherry, etc. Count the number of strokes until the board doesn't cut something properly anymore (preferably tomato instead of paper).

I'm sure it would be possible to eventually figure out fairly objectively which board does what in terms of edge retention. But it also would be a very elaborate and time-consuming test

I'm currently using a bamboo edge grain board for various reasons. It's nice in terms of looks, weight, and durability, but I'm not impressed with how quickly it dulls my knives. (Or, at least, I think that my knives are getting duller more quickly than I would like; perception bias can really distort things…) I'll be replacing that board at some point soonish with an edge grain board made out of a different wood. (I'm open to suggestions as to what wood might be a good choice.) I can't use end grain because I need a large (roughly 23" x 20") board, and the thickness of end grain in that size is prohibitive in my case; it would raise the cutting height too much.

If I notice any difference in edge retention, I'll report back. Or I just might carry out that test with, say, two different knives on each of the boards. At least that would tell me whether the replacement board is any kinder to my edges…

Michi, consider reading what Boardsmith has to say under faq's. He mentions that bamboo uses a lot of resin that is hard on knives. A general recommendation is to use wood from between like 850 and 1600 on the Janka scale. Over at the link suggested by Barmoley people love the Hi-soft boards. The Hi-soft are vinyl acetate which don't seem to get the criticism that rubber gets about the knife being grabbed but I could be incorrect? Cherry weighs in at 950 on the Janka scale.

 

[HRC_64]

bamboo has very thin strips, so lots of glue make up a large % of surface area...amongst other problems
similar to cutting on the resin impregnated boards, they feel very hard... and lack good feedback or board feel.

[for any given board]

cost
form factor
longevity
feel/feebdack when cutting
edge retention
local availability

many factors and like everything its a tradeoff which is "best"

 

[parbaked]

I am talking about slicing raw protein, not chopping vegetables.
As such the criteria that really matter are 1) build quality and 2) the ability to get it clean/sterilized.
I'm not banging my suji or honesuki into the board, so edge retention and feedback don't really matter.

 

[HRC_64]

...talking about slicing raw protein, not chopping vegetables.
As such the criteria that really matter are 1) build quality and 2) the ability to get it clean/sterilized.

Agree with you for eg. protein prep no prob using plastic/poly...as you mentiont theres just not that much edge contact and the abilty to clean the item and other non-cutting aspects are important (size, storage, cost, etc).

 

[Michi]

Michi, consider reading what Boardsmith has to say under faq's.

Will do. My apologies for derailing the thread!

 

[Foltest]

I dont think its great test for kitchen knives, reason being is that sharpness required for cutting food is not the same as for cutting rope. The edge that will cut rope just fine for days probably would be best for cutting soft tomatoes. In terms of sharpness, range where the knife is sharp enough for food doesn't overlap with the sharpness necessary for rope cutting. For edc's and utility knives it's not bad test tho.

 

[Barmoley]

He is not just cutting rope, he is cutting until force to cut becomes more then a certain number. At this point the knife will still cut rope. Would it be a better test for kitchen knives if he cut tomatoes instead? How would that translate to cutting carrots or meat?

Of course a test of cutting rope is just that. A test of cutting abrasive impregnated cards is just that. Those two seem to be highly correlated, so is it not reasonable to assume that these are also highly correlated to cutting food?