Another workhorse

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Tony

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Dec 23, 2017
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What would you recommend for another workhorse knife? I've been using a Kochi Migaki 210mm for the past year. I have an itch to try something new.

I'm looking at the Gesshin Stainless 210mm from JKI, Watanabe 210mm, Toyama 210mm


LOCATION
What country are you in?
Canada



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef's Knife

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Prefer stainless or low maintenance, this will be used as a workhorse with tons of use and left out

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$300usd



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing vegetables, meats

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Kochi Migaki 210mm

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Slicing, push cut

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Edge retention, a bit taller maybe, thinner

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Stainless or very low maintenance, maybe light colour wood round handle but not fussy

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
I don't like too light a knife,

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Smoother push cutting, slicing motion, less wedging, better food release, less reactivity with food, easier to sharpen


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Longer is better



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Walnut cutting board

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes I use mostly Gesshin 2000 but I have a Gesshin synthetic natural too

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
 
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This seems a tough request Smoother push cutting, slicing motion, less wedging, better food release, less reactivity with food, easier to sharpen

Kochi Migaki is not like other Kochi, it is convex not wide bevel and a bit thicker over all. It also has blue 2 as core. Does the knife both wedge and has bad food release? Usually it is one or the other, so curious about this specific example, sounds odd. Blue 2 is also, usually very easy to sharpen, so hard to get something even easier. You might want to try something like Gengetsu with white or semi core, cladding is stainless, not taller than Kochi migaki though. Maybe Masashi, those are tall and thin and some have white 2 core. Then again you also want better edge retention, so not sure what to recommend really, since edge retention and ease of sharpening don't usually go hand in hand. Just too many contradicting requirements, compromises need to be made somewhere.
 
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It definitely seems like op is thinking about gyutos but a stainless tall thin workhorse, not longer than 210 and for doing a lot of slicing, sounds like a good spec sheet for a cleaver/chuka. Gesshin, Ginga, Sugimoto 4030...

the Shiro Kamo does look like it fits the bill as well as Masashi SLD.
 
This seems a tough request Smoother push cutting, slicing motion, less wedging, better food release, less reactivity with food, easier to sharpen

Kochi Migaki is not like other Kochi, it is convex not wide bevel and a bit thicker over all. It also has blue 2 as core. Does the knife both wedge and has bad food release? Usually it is one or the other, so curious about this specific example, sounds odd. Blue 2 is also, usually very easy to sharpen, so hard to get something even easier. You might want to try something like Gengetsu with white or semi core, cladding is stainless, not taller than Kochi migaki though. Maybe Masashi, those are tall and thin and some have white 2 core. Then again you also want better edge retention, so not sure what to recommend really, since edge retention and ease of sharpening don't usually go hand in hand. Just too many contradicting requirements, compromises need to be made somewhere.

I was just answering the questionnaire. I like my Migaki and I don't have issues with it wedging or bad release.

The thing I don't like about it is the reactivity and sometimes I wish it was a little taller

Easy to sharpen would be ideal, edge retention not a big deal
 
Post wtb for Toyama or watanabe 210 stainless clad, you could have it for 300 usd second hand. Sometimes it's even bnib condition.
 
The gesshin stainless would probably not be an improvement over your Kochi for a majority of your criteria. Perhaps you meant to say the gesshin ginga (though it's a very light knife)?
 
The gesshin stainless would probably not be an improvement over your Kochi for a majority of your criteria. Perhaps you meant to say the gesshin ginga (though it's a very light knife)?

Only said Gesshin Stainless because I've seen JKI recommend it as a workhorse

I just have an itch to try something new. As Long as it's good for a workhorse since it will see a lot of use. The only real criteria I have this time is little to no reactivity so was thinking stainless. I'm flexible on everything else I was just answering off the questionaire
 
Since I think you're in Canada, this might be a good choice: Yoshikane SKD Tsuchime Gyuto 210mm Magnolia Handle

I've not used it, but rumor has it that my Kono YS-M is made by Yoshikane and it has one of the best grinds I've ever used.

I have this knife (from EE not A&O) and it's the best cutter hands down in my (quite small) collection, however OP mentioned wanting a taller knife and this one will likely be similar or shorter at the heel than his Kochi. Mine is about 47mm.
 
Yeah, Kochi migaki is already around 47-48, at least those are the measurements at JKI and anecdotal width for 210s. Most 210s are around there or narrower, Masashi is taller at ~51 and in SLD version is basically stainless. Toyama 210 is 49-50 usually. The easiest way to get taller is to go longer, but since OP doesn't want longer the options are somewhat limited.
 
Just an update

I picked up a Gesshin Stainless 210mm from JKI

I will report back how I like it after I get some time with it

lZ3CSHm.jpg
 
Just an update

I picked up a Gesshin Stainless 210mm from JKI

I will report back how I like it after I get some time with it

lZ3CSHm.jpg

Beautiful pickup!

Please let us know your impressions as I have wanted to try one of these forms quite some time :)
 
Just wanted to report back the Gesshin Stainless 210mm from JKI has been awesome - highly recommend having them round the spine and choil though I didn't and wish I did

Used in a commercial kitchen lots of use and beat on its been great one of my favourite knives

Ready for a new knife now - any suggestions? - I'd like something a bit heavier than the Gesshin 210mm stainless and a nicer fit and finish - stainless or really low maintenance because its will be used in commercial kitchen
 
Me thinks you're describing a Tanaka Ginsan from K&S. But they're out of stock. Another good one would be the EN from JKI - very thin tip, more robust body, great knife. But they're out of stock.

For Watanabe his website is KITCHEN KNIFE | WATANABE BLADE

You can contact him through there and ask about specific knife (his site is a little difficult). He'll quote you availability and price.
 

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