Anyone have experience with the Gesshin 3k splash and go?

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Cyrilix

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I'm looking for a stone between my Shapton 1k and 5k, en route to a Kitayama 8k. I do like splash and go stones because my entire lineup is splash and go and I dislike the idea of permasoaking.

Anyone used these stones and have feedback?
 

JBroida

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I'm looking for a stone between my Shapton 1k and 5k, en route to a Kitayama 8k. I do like splash and go stones because my entire lineup is splash and go and I dislike the idea of permasoaking.

Anyone used these stones and have feedback?
I don’t know if you want my input on this, but if you do, let me know
 

Cyrilix

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I don’t know if you want my input on this, but if you do, let me know
I would love to have your input, especially with respect to the Shaptons Pros that I have, particularly the 1k, 5k, and the Kitayama 8k. I'm trying to figure out whether or not I love the 5k or if I should consider replacing it.

I just put my FKM back on the stones today for my polishing project. When the 5k collects too much water on it, your knife just skates on the water and nothing happens. I also feel the need to rinse off the swarf very frequently.

I guess what I'm looking for is something with a bit more feedback and that can operate without any annoyances (such as knife sticking to stone when thinning, knife skating on stone, or stone requiring constant splashes, or stone dishing too easily). Sounds like a big ask but who knows.
 

JBroida

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So, it has better feedback than the shapton and will be a bit more grippy, but it can get super muddy with wide bevels, so you may have some sticking if you're trying to do thinning on this for longer periods. A bit of extra water clears it up quickly and easily though, and i havent been annoyed by that at all. It does not require that much water, as it doesnt really soak in any. And while the tactile feedback is better than the shapton in my opinion, the stone has a bit of a break in period where it doesnt feel particularly great. It does leave a very bright and even looking finish though. I wouldnt call it annoyance free, but I think its better than what you've got now. That being said, i would probably prefer a permasoaked gesshin 6k splash and go (but we might be out of stock or down to 1 in stock right now). Its still a bit sticky when the mud gest going, but its my favorite to use for this because of the feedback and finish it leaves. The synthetic natural is also similar when permasoaked.
 

Cyrilix

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So, it has better feedback than the shapton and will be a bit more grippy, but it can get super muddy with wide bevels, so you may have some sticking if you're trying to do thinning on this for longer periods. A bit of extra water clears it up quickly and easily though, and i havent been annoyed by that at all. It does not require that much water, as it doesnt really soak in any. And while the tactile feedback is better than the shapton in my opinion, the stone has a bit of a break in period where it doesnt feel particularly great. It does leave a very bright and even looking finish though. I wouldnt call it annoyance free, but I think its better than what you've got now. That being said, i would probably prefer a permasoaked gesshin 6k splash and go (but we might be out of stock or down to 1 in stock right now). Its still a bit sticky when the mud gest going, but its my favorite to use for this because of the feedback and finish it leaves. The synthetic natural is also similar when permasoaked.
Thanks. If I were to get one stone between the Kitayama 8k and my 1k Shapton, do you think the 3k sng would be more useful or the 6k sng given that I won't be permasoaking any stones?
 

labor of love

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I have experience with all the stones you’ve mentioned in this thread.
I’ll echo what Jon already said. I’m pretty sure the gesh Splash and Go 6k is the closest stone to what you’re looking for.
I found the 6k sng easier to use for polishing, leaving a nicer polish than synthetic natural. I’m not really good at polishing and even I found it extremely easy to use.
Synthetic natural does leave a great finishing edge with a lot of bite if you’re interested in trying different finishing edge or if you want a stone to do something besides just polish. Which isn’t to say the 6k only polishes, but rather it’s advantage over other 6k stones is the terrific polish it leaves.
But if you’re following either sng 6k or synth natural w kitayama maybe either stone would work for you (I think?)
I gotta say I wasn’t really into the sng 3k-but I might’ve given up on it too early as Jon mentions there’s this breaking in process for initial use of the stone.
 

JBroida

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yeah... the 6k really is only fun for me when its permenantly soaked. In the case that soaking is not something you want to do, you are limited to magnesia/cement based stones, as resinoid stones will never work their best without some soaking (or permenant soaking, which is the best way to get great performance out of them). Most magnesia stones are going to feel a bit more firm and generally wont have the same kind of tactile feedback that ceramic stones and the like will. Hope this video gives you a better idea of how the stone works though...

 

Colonel Mustard

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yeah... the 6k really is only fun for me when its permenantly soaked. In the case that soaking is not something you want to do, you are limited to magnesia/cement based stones, as resinoid stones will never work their best without some soaking (or permenant soaking, which is the best way to get great performance out of them). Most magnesia stones are going to feel a bit more firm and generally wont have the same kind of tactile feedback that ceramic stones and the like will. Hope this video gives you a better idea of how the stone works though...

Since I'm using the Gessin 6K sng and really enjoy it, I'm curious to know what would be the difference if I were to permasoak it. Mostly feedback or something else? To the OP, I've been getting a really nice edge with it even if I don't soak it.
 

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its softer, muddier, cuts faster, feels better, and polishes better. Just know that soaking and drying can cause it to crack... thats why i permasoak them
 

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I had Gesshin 6k S&G (I would have kept it had I anticipated getting into razors) and also used the 3k a few times. My experience reflects what Jon said (just not in such a detailed way).

Really cool thing about the 320, 1500 and 3000 is that they do not absorb any water at all. So you can just let the wet surface dry and store them away.
 

Colonel Mustard

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its softer, muddier, cuts faster, feels better, and polishes better. Just know that soaking and drying can cause it to crack... thats why i permasoak them
Sounds good! I think I'll try to permasoak it then. Thanks!
 

Cyrilix

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Sounds good! I think I'll try to permasoak it then. Thanks!
If I were to try out the 3k splash, would I even need the 6k? I would hope that the 3k is sufficiently quick to get the scratches out of the 1k and the Kitayama is sufficiently quick to get the scratches out of the 3k.

I noticed that going from 1k to 5k is actually kind of slow, especially when the blade is not 100% flat. Also the 5k leaves a muddy streak instead of polish when you have swarf on your stone and apply more pressure. This makes polishing rather difficult. I hope I don't run into these issues with the 3k and Kitayama.
 

JBroida

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If I were to try out the 3k splash, would I even need the 6k? I would hope that the 3k is sufficiently quick to get the scratches out of the 1k and the Kitayama is sufficiently quick to get the scratches out of the 3k.

I noticed that going from 1k to 5k is actually kind of slow, especially when the blade is not 100% flat. Also the 5k leaves a muddy streak instead of polish when you have swarf on your stone and apply more pressure. This makes polishing rather difficult. I hope I don't run into these issues with the 3k and Kitayama.
If a smooth finish is your concern you want to use a permasoaked soft resinoid stone... best way to leave a smooth even looking finish
 

Cyrilix

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If a smooth finish is your concern you want to use a permasoaked soft resinoid stone... best way to leave a smooth even looking finish
If I expand the scope of my search beyond splash and gos and still want something that is a good transition from 1k, would something like the 4k soaker be a better option than the 3k splash? Given that the Shapton 1k is more like a 750-800 grit, I'm worried that going directly to a 6k is kind of suboptimal in terms of time invested, especially when your next step is 8k.

I've ruled out the 6k splash given the care required to dry. I would still take appropriate care when drying but I want minimal liability. So, the current options I have on the table:

Gesshin 3K splash
Gesshin 4K soaker
Gesshin 6000S soaker

At this point, splash and go is the lowest priority in terms of importance. Durability, feedback, no need to permasoak, finish consistency, ease of use, and grit progression sensibility all rank much higher.

Shapton Pro 1k --> ??? --> Kitayama 8k
 

labor of love

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I should probably just stay out of this conversation.
But nope;)
Can I ask why you’re not interested in permasoaking? It’s just the safer way of dealing with most soakers, problems can arise with constant soaking and drying of stones. In the long run it’s just the easier way of dealing with these types of stones. There’s actually more liability by not permasoaking stones, as there are less opportunities for the stones to dry in an uneven fashion and crack.
I mean, if done properly yeah you can dry out stones after use.
I’ll shut up now.
 

Cyrilix

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I should probably just stay out of this conversation.
But nope;)
Can I ask why you’re not interested in permasoaking? It’s just the safer way of dealing with most soakers, problems can arise with constant soaking and drying of stones. In the long run it’s just the easier way of dealing with these types of stones. There’s actually more liability by not permasoaking stones, as there are less opportunities for the stones to dry in an uneven fashion and crack.
I mean, if done properly yeah you can dry out stones after use.
I’ll shut up now.
I'm just not enamored with the idea of standing water being stored somewhere at home. Also I wouldn't want to put all of my stones in the same container to minimize grit contamination.

By the way, please feel free to join all of my conversations. I'm glad to hear from you. :D
 

vicv

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I use individual plastic containers for my soaker stones. But even if I didn't as long as the stones are clean when put into storage there will be no grit contamination. The containers have locking lids so no worries about keeping water around the house. Once a month I drain and refill
 

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I can say that Gesshin 6K S is a nice stone. I like how it feels and the finish/speed is very acceptable.
 

JBroida

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I don't think that the grit is that much of a concern… Anything in the 3000 to 6000 grit range will be more than fine for what you need. Most of the stones we are talking about are relatively fast cutting, and I have personally tried jumping from that Shapton 1K to all of them with no trouble. The bigger issue that you have is that the finished consistency that you are looking for is really going to be best with a permanently soaked resinoid based stone. No other stone will provide that same kind of aesthetic finish. You can get close with some, but you will still see streaking around curves. For example, the Gesshin 3K splash-and-go stone leaves a very nice looking finish in terms of how mirrorlike it is, but it will be streaky around curves, as it's a harder stone. Also, it doesn't provide quite as nice of tactile feedback. The 3K soaker and 4K soaker will both provide much better cutting speed and tactile feedback, but the finish is not going to be anything like what you are looking for. The 6000 S provides great tactile feedback and is quite enjoyable to use, but again, the finish is not going to be quite like what you are looking for. Because of your limitations, you will be forced to make some kind of compromise in this regard. You could try using a resinoid based on without soaking, but you just won't be getting the best performance out of it for what you are looking for specifically.


With respect to grit contamination, I think that this is probably an overblown issue. If you are trying to compete in a Kezurokai (wood plane competition) it might be a bit more of a concern. But in the scope of normal sharpening and polishing, as long as you keep things generally clean, you should be fine. I could show you what our setup looks like here in the kind of work that we are able to do with this. I think you would be surprised at how little I worry about grit contamination.
 

Cyrilix

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I don't think that the grit is that much of a concern… Anything in the 3000 to 6000 grit range will be more than fine for what you need. Most of the stones we are talking about are relatively fast cutting, and I have personally tried jumping from that Shapton 1K to all of them with no trouble. The bigger issue that you have is that the finished consistency that you are looking for is really going to be best with a permanently soaked resinoid based stone. No other stone will provide that same kind of aesthetic finish. You can get close with some, but you will still see streaking around curves. For example, the Gesshin 3K splash-and-go stone leaves a very nice looking finish in terms of how mirrorlike it is, but it will be streaky around curves, as it's a harder stone. Also, it doesn't provide quite as nice of tactile feedback. The 3K soaker and 4K soaker will both provide much better cutting speed and tactile feedback, but the finish is not going to be anything like what you are looking for. The 6000 S provides great tactile feedback and is quite enjoyable to use, but again, the finish is not going to be quite like what you are looking for. Because of your limitations, you will be forced to make some kind of compromise in this regard. You could try using a resinoid based on without soaking, but you just won't be getting the best performance out of it for what you are looking for specifically.


With respect to grit contamination, I think that this is probably an overblown issue. If you are trying to compete in a Kezurokai (wood plane competition) it might be a bit more of a concern. But in the scope of normal sharpening and polishing, as long as you keep things generally clean, you should be fine. I could show you what our setup looks like here in the kind of work that we are able to do with this. I think you would be surprised at how little I worry about grit contamination.
Thanks. Given the comments on the fast cutting speed and the good feedback, I'm prioritizing both of these over polish capability, given that I would like to polish on the Kitayama. Jon and everyone else, thanks for all the help. I'll be getting the 4k soaker.
 

JBroida

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yeah... if feedback and speed are your thing, thats the move (assuming its not too crazy budget-wise)
 

labor of love

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4k is a really great choice. Jon, out of curiosity would the 3k soaker serve the OPs needs about the same as the 4k if he’s just going to finish on kitayama anyway?
I only say this with regards to budget.
 
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