Anyone using Shirogami #2 in a pro kitchen?

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SaladApe

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Pros and cons - reactivity, edge retention, etc etc. I go through a lot of red onions, red cabbage. Stainless cladding should take care of the worst reactive stuff but... thoughts?
 

stringer

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Pros and cons - reactivity, edge retention, etc etc. I go through a lot of red onions, red cabbage. Stainless cladding should take care of the worst reactive stuff but... thoughts?
Stainless cladding removes 99% of the maintenance issues (and soul) of carbon. I use monosteel white number 2, iron clad white 2, and iron clad blue in professional kitchens no problems. I do not baby my knives. If you are not into patina then go with the stainless clad and live life worry free. If you want to get rid of the patina on the core at some point, or even at the end of every shift. Just polish it up with some metal polish and a kitchen rag.
 

SaladApe

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My current knives are iron-clad and for work I'm starting to find maintaining their patinas to be a real pain. Think I'll take a chance on stainless-clad carbon. Thanks for the answer.
 

Steel+Fire

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My current knives are iron-clad and for work I'm starting to find maintaining their patinas to be a real pain. Think I'll take a chance on stainless-clad carbon. Thanks for the answer.
Try an AS blade clad in stainless. All of my AS blades have resisted rust well and take a nice solid and very dark gray patina after a while. AS takes a wicked edge that is in my opinion close to being as keen as any other Shirogami or Aogami steel blades I own. I have a White #1 that is clad in SS and I have found it challenging to keep it from getting surface rust on the exposed blade edge even when washed well, dried fully and having oil applied to it. Also my AS blades seem to retain their edge way longer than my Shirogami blades so you will enjoy not having to touch up the edge quite as often in a pro-environment.

I love Shirogami #1 and #2 but if I was looking for a blade for a pro-environment I would step up to AS or even HAP40 just for the edge retention.
 

SaladApe

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Cool. Yes, I have use of a HAP40 knife and it's pretty great.
 

Gregmega

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My current knives are iron-clad and for work I'm starting to find maintaining their patinas to be a real pain. Think I'll take a chance on stainless-clad carbon. Thanks for the answer.
It’s a real commitment. They are times when I wonder why the hell I do it as well. But for almost 2 years I used exclusively w2 and I still love it. But I also committed to it and carry an aizu, some wet sandpaper, steel polish, cork, and accoutrements in my kit. I guess it’s about finding a stainless that you can live with, that has that organic soulful feeling. I found 52100 mono-steel kinda meets those demands as it’s less reactive but still feels ‘alive’.
 

inferno

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I'm fairly certain all blue variants will have the potential of being sharper then white steel. since it has grain refiners in it. and they will also hold on to this edge longer since the have Cr (low) to resist corrosion and also W (high) for tungsten carbides. to me at least it seems to be almost impossible to HT blue-whatever badly.

for a pro kitchen i would get stainless though and a few sharpening stones of good quality instead. much less of a hassle.
 

panda

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white steel will get 'sharper' than blue steel, i dunno what inferno is going on about. but that means diddly squat in kitchen use as even a 1000 grit edge is perfectly fine for cutting food.

i prefer white steel because of ease of sharpening. if you are worried about patina, dont even bother with carbon.
 

Gregmega

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I’m with you on that one, no idea he’s on about... White has the ability to take an almost violent edge with like 10 swipes on an aizu. That’s why it still rules imo, & patina is just a price you pay for the front row seat.
 

turbochef422

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I like white 2 for the kitchen, it gets sharp fast. Looses it quick but easy to touch up as it comes right back. I’ve had super reactive white 1 blades but always a consistent patina with white 2. White 2 and Blue 1 are my favorite carbons
 

M1k3

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I wouldn't be opposed to using Shirogami, especially with none to very light board contact. I much prefer the edge retention of the Blues though. The little added chromium is just a bonus in the "not rusting as easily but still forming a patina" department.
 

inferno

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white steel will get 'sharper' than blue steel, i dunno what inferno is going on about. but that means diddly squat in kitchen use as even a 1000 grit edge is perfectly fine for cutting food.

i prefer white steel because of ease of sharpening. if you are worried about patina, dont even bother with carbon.
ok why?? i have a feeling that you only think that it might be so. when it is infact the opposite. according to science.

pure carbon steel is not the finest grained. why would it be? why would you then add grain refiners such as cr and w to carbon steel? doesn't make sense.
 

inferno

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I’m with you on that one, no idea he’s on about... White has the ability to take an almost violent edge with like 10 swipes on an aizu. That’s why it still rules imo, & patina is just a price you pay for the front row seat.
because it has next to zero abrasive wear resistance yeah?? is that now some how a good thing?

what about adhesive wear resistance? where would you place white then?
 

lemeneid

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Yeah no idea what you’re smoking. White is one of the purest steels around, that’s how it gets so amazingly sharp. You keep harping on about science but I see no science in here.

The only steels I’ve experienced that are sharper than white are 125SC and Denka steel but the differences are too close to call.
 

Gregmega

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because it has next to zero abrasive wear resistance yeah?? is that now some how a good thing?

what about adhesive wear resistance? where would you place white then?
This has zero to do with the thread but I’ll bite- I just prefer it. There ya go. And tbh I don’t care about the science, I like the way white cuts, I like the feel on the stones, I like how quick it takes an edge, and no amount of nerding out will change that. I also like all the other steels I use for their own reasons, but the gobbleygoo coming out of your keyboard won’t change how I feel about them either.
 

GoodMagic

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Honestly there are so many factors that go into how sharp a blade gets like heat treat that I don’t find general statements about one steel or another very helpful. Burke 52100, Rader W2, Hide blue 2, Hinora white 2, etc all get screaming sharp in my experience. The steel and edge geometry then affect retention in my experience. I do love simple carbon steel . Stainless has no soul, but I get its appeal, just not for me.
 

Gregmega

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I like white 2 for the kitchen, it gets sharp fast. Looses it quick but easy to touch up as it comes right back. I’ve had super reactive white 1 blades but always a consistent patina with white 2. White 2 and Blue 1 are my favorite carbons
Gotta agree here. The Wat Maz combo is just fun.
 

Eitan78

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White 2 gets pretty damm sharp in no time , stays sharp enough for any high volume prep work and it’s cheap. Plus if considering reactive cladding a problem, you can always get a stainless clad with white core. Plenty of great options out there. mazaki, wakui etc’.
 

Gregmega

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tf maboroshi has one of the best heat treats ive ever come across. the knife itself is mediocre but the steel is worth it alone.
The steel is crazy on that one. But funny enough, I’ve had a few mazaki that hold edges for a week in high volume with only a hone every now and again. #nohypejustthegoods
 

Eitan78

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tf maboroshi has one of the best heat treats ive ever come across. the knife itself is mediocre but the steel is worth it alone.
I believe you, but buying a good ground and finish with TF is a gamble, 1 in 10-15 chances to get a good one.
you will probably get an awful knife and will have to spend hours on the course stone to fix all the low spots.

Many knives has great heat treat, I’m not gambling on a TF, plenty of safe options and many great other makers with good reputation out there.
 

panda

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let me tell you about my favorite white2 heat treat. its from discontinued yoshikane line, stainless clad kasumi. it was in just the right sweet spot of combining great feedback and retention. felt grippy on stones yet lasted a lot longer than a KS and edge will come right back with a few strokes on mac black. the knife itself was not for me though so i let it go.

eitan - i agree, its a hassle. plus i hate stainless cladding. if an iron clad version was available i would take a gamble however as an expensive project beater.
 

panda

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anyways, we got off topic a bit. to help the original poster.

i think the best steel for pro kitchen use is heiji semi-stainless. it is freaking amazing stuff. benefits of carbon without its cons. win-win. absolute bargain of a price too. i am glad there is no hype on these.
 

Qapla'

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If this risks thread-hijacking, feel free to take my post to private messaging: How would a TF compare to, say, a Masahisa Shirogami-1 Western?
 

v647c

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Do you think all white 2 is the same? Even in billet form they are graded.

Also, adhesive wear resistance in the kitchen? What?

because it has next to zero abrasive wear resistance yeah?? is that now some how a good thing?

what about adhesive wear resistance? where would you place white then?
 

Eitan78

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let me tell you about my favorite white2 heat treat. its from discontinued yoshikane line, stainless clad kasumi. it was in just the right sweet spot of combining great feedback and retention. felt grippy on stones yet lasted a lot longer than a KS and edge will come right back with a few strokes on mac black. the knife itself was not for me though so i let it go.

eitan - i agree, its a hassle. plus i hate stainless cladding. if an iron clad version was available i would take a gamble however as an expensive project beater.
My most use white 2 knife is an old ironclad wakui that’s has an insane edge and great retention, im pretty sure the stainless clad is just as good.
I think I paid $190 for it.
the stainless goes for $169, probably the beast bang for the buck I ever used.
This is a very inexpensive project beater that ended up one of my all time favorite knife
(Knife is new in the picture)
IMG_3423.jpg
 
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