Anyone using Shirogami #2 in a pro kitchen?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by SaladApe, Sep 19, 2019.

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  1. Sep 21, 2019 #91

    Sharpchef

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    Also not good for the edge... Sorry but to remove an burr from the edge, short edge leading strokes are the way to go! Learn with straight razors, these guys mostly know their stuff... Untreated leather may be useful for sharpening tests like HHT or something, but not necessary. Any compound on leather strops is even more bad for the edge.

    It would be cool if some pro chefs here would join a testing group and we can send some professional (no offense here!) sharpened blades to them to test. Most of you will change the mind and never ever come back to Shirogami and 3times touchup a day....

    I am a pro chef and i run a forum like this (smaller, more freaky nerds on there) and most of us are absolutely convinced that a modern PM HSS Steel with proper sharpening can outlast anything...

    Ok just for the sake of it we sharpen with so called Jiigs (but on Benchstones, so we can still thin out if necessary....) So no bad things about it.

    Greets Sebastian.
     
  2. Sep 21, 2019 #92

    inferno

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    my personal opinion is that stropping is best left for razors, but thats just me. i have never had problems with burrs but i finish with side alternating swipes on the stones.
     
  3. Sep 21, 2019 #93

    Sharpchef

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    This was exactly what i thought before testing stuff like this !

    But think of the pros stuff like this can bring to you!

    An edge, sharpened to HHT 5.. Stays about 1 Day at a sharpness level you loose with shirogami after a few cuts... and after this you can cut 2 weeks... in Pro business. Still cutting tomatoe skin, onion skin, pepper skin... The steel is not stainless so it got soul too! But will show you it`s soul after months and not after a few minutes......like iron clad knifes...

    But i don`t use these steels, i like good old toolsteels more. 1.2562 with high end heat treat like Marco Guldiman does, keeps an amazing edge for 1-2 weeks too. But you have to sharpen them properly...

    greets Sebastian.
     
  4. Sep 21, 2019 #94

    labor of love

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    Maybe there is some confusion with terminology going on here.
    When I say strop on a stone I mean that I’m using a stropping motion to weaken the burr on a stone and finally deburr.

    I do something kinda like what Jon suggests here and it’s totally fine and works great.

     
  5. Sep 21, 2019 #95

    Chuckles

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    Most of my knives I stop at gesshin 2K or natural red aoto. I have the JKI diamond stones for the powdered steels.

    I think when you are less experienced at sharpening the higher grit stones are useful for making sure the burr is totally removed. Once you get the hang of lower grit finishing it is the way to go for production environments.

    I play with all kinds of steels in the kitchen and they are all fine when done correctly. I found Kato to be quite chippy and I believe that is white steel. Only bad experience I have had with white steel in that regard.

    I do always have a sharp CPM154 knife as a backup in case it all hits the fan. For me it is like the AR15 in the trunk of the police cruiser. I can use whatever for the day to day but if/when it gets really extreme I know the powdered steel won’t stop cutting. Definitely not as fun to sharpen but holds a functional edge forever.
     
  6. Sep 21, 2019 #96

    JBroida

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    i feel like 3k-6k is a happy place for most kitchen use
     
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  7. Sep 21, 2019 #97

    inferno

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    Edit: Inferno - You know better.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2019
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  8. Sep 21, 2019 #98

    Sharpchef

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    Ok i got you... I don`t have the time to watch the whole video.. But the things i see are so called bad... Stropping on stones, makes burr ;) ..

    Greets Sebastian.
     
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  9. Sep 22, 2019 #99

    kayman67

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    Really, 125? That's kept quite secret. Damn! There is no info on the news about it. And I've been in Germany for a while. Incredible how well controlled were the news feeds. Even on Facebook.

    Back to business.

    Maybe one reason so many like using these is the fact that they can easily get hair shaving sharp even with 100 grit. I haven't tried on anything lower.
     
  10. Sep 22, 2019 #100

    SaladApe

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    So I strop on a Naniwa 3000, which is great for a bit, but after a few hours chopping acidic stuff on plastic boards - the reality of our environment is colour-coded h&S plastic boards, no wood - I'm stropping again, or maybe dropping down to 1000 or even raising a quick burr on a 22o and pulling the edge through the pine trim on the back of the deli counter to straighten it. It's a 10-hour shift and I don't take a break, so I just don't have time for anything fancy. What I need is something totally hassle-free. What I WANT is something that gives me the aesthetic pleasure of an artisan-made tool, the tactile pleasure of carbon and an edge that keeps on jumping. I'm hoping that the equation between want and need is solveable.
     
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  11. Sep 22, 2019 #101

    SilverSwarfer

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    Check out this post. @stringer uses his blades hard in a high volume pro kitchen. What’s shared here is very useful (for me at least!).

    https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/durability-testing-watanabe-pro-gyuto.41263/
     
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  12. Sep 22, 2019 #102

    stringer

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    For the record. I vote for a 2k finish on work knives. I mostly only strop between stones. Although I do like to finish on a little felt or denim at home. And for quick touch-ups, I use a ceramic hone. But I've never used HSS or powdered metals or anything like that. I am definitely in the thin behind the edge with a fat microbevel camp.
     
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  13. Sep 22, 2019 #103

    panda

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    you guys will get a kick out of this:
    my most used knife is a hiromoto white2 honyaki that i only sharpen on a chosera 400! and then deburr on hard felt block from dave martell. then extend the life of the edge with mac black.

    i too keep a 'backup knife for when sh1t hits the fan' where you cant worry about the edge at all. mine is a monosteel yoshihiro ginsanko that i've modified quite a bit.

    ive been wanting to get a jki diamond 1k for a while now. i just currently dont sharpen very often so havent gotten around to it yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  14. Sep 22, 2019 #104

    HRC_64

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    No iron cladding? You must not be a Pro :D
     
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  15. Sep 22, 2019 #105

    labor of love

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    I love chosera 400 > shapton pro 2k.
     
  16. Sep 22, 2019 #106

    Gregmega

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    Dude. It’s still a gd carbon knife. What is your damage.
     
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  17. Sep 22, 2019 #107

    suntravel

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    Stropping on stones will make most time a wire edge, and stropping along the egde will kill any bite and makes nice scratces for mikrochipping.

    From my experience about 45° to the edge works best, direktion depends on if you want to push or pull cut.

    Short strokes less than 1/2" with as little pressure as possible on both sides, and there is no noticible burr, even with an 1k stone

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  18. Sep 22, 2019 #108

    labor of love

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    Stropping motions on stones is how I remove the long metal particles off the edge.
     
  19. Sep 22, 2019 #109

    suntravel

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  20. Sep 22, 2019 #110

    ian

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  21. Sep 22, 2019 #111

    labor of love

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    We might be talking pass each other right now. Continuous stropping motion on a stone is knocking the burr back and forth thus weakening it and making it easy to deburr. Sometimes the burr just breaks off on it’s on.
    Maybe you and Carter are right, maybe the burr is raised somewhat in this process. But the goal is to make the burr as fragile as possible so it can deburr easily.
     
  22. Sep 22, 2019 #112

    kayman67

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    With (some) high HRC alloys you can actually hear the burr leaving the edge like this :)
    So, take everything with a bit of salt and pepper.
     
  23. Sep 22, 2019 #113

    Chuckles

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    That’s an interesting article. Seems to support that the technique Jon and Murray demonstrate is a fast and practical way of producing a durable and functional cutting edge. No surprise that it is the technique used by most of the people here. I would think that an experienced free hand sharpener would show even stronger results than jig sharpening because they can react to feedback. And it is the quality of the feedback that makes white steel an attractive option in the kitchen.
     
  24. Sep 22, 2019 #114

    suntravel

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    Nope a good Jig gives better feedback and way better pressure control, with a jig you can even feel if the grinding ist done without pressure on a shapton 30k or Escher, because the friction will be higher if the bevel ist complete polished.

    But this is nerd stuff, with 3k i need less than 50% strokes compared to freehand because every stroke hits the egde, removes less steel for the same (better) result.

    And with low pressure no probs with burr ;)

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  25. Sep 22, 2019 #115

    Chuckles

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    Not trying to open up the jig conversation in this thread. I am sure they work for those who use them. I have never used one so my opinion is far from fully informed. I can see their value when constructing an experiment like the one in the article.

    I never seen anybody have trouble getting a white steel knife sharp if they have ever successfully sharpened a knife. Especially if they are coming from stainless.
     
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  26. Sep 22, 2019 #116

    labor of love

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    Oh. You’re one of those people :D
     
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  27. Sep 22, 2019 #117

    suntravel

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    Yep some of those witch ist thinking believing is for church, and kitchenknife performance can be measured, so its scientific ;)

    Regards

    Uwe
     
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  28. Sep 22, 2019 #118

    HRC_64

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    wrought iron vs carbon steel ...knife maintenance?...not interchangeble...sorry bro
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  29. Sep 22, 2019 #119

    K813zra

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    All I know is that I rub steel on a rock and then cut things after. It can be magic for all I care.
     
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  30. Sep 22, 2019 #120

    labor of love

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    The irony being you sound almost religious about your own belief system when it comes to sharpening. ;)

    But hey, to each their own.
     

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