Anyone using Shirogami #2 in a pro kitchen?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by SaladApe, Sep 19, 2019.

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  1. Sep 22, 2019 #121

    suntravel

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    Well my main business ist process improvement in a metal working industry, and my hobby before kitchen knifes was drag and roadracing....

    ... all could be measured by key numbers like knife performance also, no religion at this point ;)

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  2. Sep 22, 2019 #122

    stringer

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    How many pounds of zucchini can it chop?
     
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  3. Sep 22, 2019 #123

    suntravel

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    zuccini is not that picky regarding sharpness, but witch steel witch grind do you think of ?

    Regards

    Uwe
     
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  4. Sep 22, 2019 #124

    labor of love

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    Sorry, I was just having some fun with you with my last comment.
    I’ll never use a jig but I’ll keep an eye on that other thread you started. It does sound interesting.
     
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  5. Sep 22, 2019 #125

    stringer

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    I guess I need to try some PM HSS next to see what it's all about. But normally I prefer knives with thick spines that are as thin behind the edge as possible. I don't know much about scientifically testing sharpness but I do know how many metric tons of zucchini, or chuck flap, or chicken a given blade can chop or slice or dice before I get annoyed and decide to resharpen.
     
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  6. Sep 22, 2019 #126

    SilverSwarfer

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    Excuse my apparent ignorance: can anyone confirm whether I’m correct in my understanding of what’s referenced here-

    PM HSS = Powder Metallurgy High Speed Steel?

    Examples: “Vanadis 23” seems to be highly touted here. That’s the steel, not the knife right? I would be grateful to have a reference to learn more about knives and steels available that are relevant in the kitchen.
     
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  7. Sep 22, 2019 #127

    labor of love

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    Have you used a mazaki yet?
     
  8. Sep 22, 2019 #128

    McMan

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    This is a great source of knife steel info, many many different steels listed:
    http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php
     
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  9. Sep 22, 2019 #129

    Barmoley

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  10. Sep 23, 2019 #130

    panda

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    jig, lol, not even gonna touch that topic.
     
  11. Sep 23, 2019 #131

    suntravel

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    You can try a Sukenari HAP40, but only 3mm at the spine. Not sure if there is an chef knife with a thicker spine and HSS-PM ready availible.

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  12. Sep 23, 2019 #132

    GorillaGrunt

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    I maybe go a little finer than some, say a 5k or natural around the 5-6k range. Then touch up after each use on some sort of finishing stone, always starting the day with a fresh edge; when it doesn’t seem like the edge is holding anymore I drop down a stone to something like 2k. I keep a muddy Aiiwatani at work in the rare case I need or want to touch up during a shift, less than a minute does it, as fast as using a rod. I also have a minimum of two knives on me at any time - I call it Blackbeard style: drop the spent one and pick up a freshie. Rarely necessary.

    A Mac black rod is really just a 3k synth anyway, although I get the comment about optics. And it matters whether one likes to sharpen or considers it a necessary evil.

    To the original topic, yes, Munetoshi, Mazaki, Shigehiro come to mind. Once I got used to working with reactive cladding it wasn’t a big issue, although having a stainless knife of some sort around is a good idea. That said I have more knives in blue and white 1 - but maybe that has more to do with the smiths and their choice of steel; I haven’t had a Hinoura but I hear his white 2 is the bomb dot com. Conversely, I’ve tried some high alloy PM tool steels and not found any real benefit over something like R2 or CPM154. And stainless cladding does make things easier but is a melonfarmer to thin on stones.
     
  13. Sep 23, 2019 #133

    panda

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    i really did not care for hinoura heat treat, felt like glass on stones.
     
  14. Sep 23, 2019 #134
    There most likely isn't - first, very few have the possibility (and willingness) to forge modern HSS. And when doing stock removal - especially given how abrasion resistant these steels are - every 1/10 of a millimeter of thickness that must be ground off adds to processing time and costs.

    Also most knives available in HSS tend to be pretty thin, because to thin a high HRC HSS by hand is a chore :)
     
  15. Sep 23, 2019 #135

    suntravel

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    Yeah i know, thats the reason im buying grinding belts in 50pc bundles :D

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  16. Sep 23, 2019 #136

    Eitan78

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    I think you might want to try 52100 steel
    It will pretty much cover everything you mentioned in my experience.
     
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  17. Sep 23, 2019 #137

    SaladApe

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    Is 52100 similar to Swedish steel? I'm obviously displaying my ignorance here...
     
  18. Sep 23, 2019 #138

    labor of love

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    No.

    unlike shirogami, 52100 is a steel that scores above average in every category I can think of when considering carbon steel. Very good to sharpen(not the best), good retention(not the best), very good edge stability(not the best), low reactivity, very good toughness.

    I think 52100 is the most pragmatic carbon steel but it’s not the sexiest. It’s pretty good in everyway but not the best at anything.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
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  19. Sep 23, 2019 #139

    ian

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    But how do you *pronounce* 52100?

    I’m in the fifty two one hundred camp, but I could see a case being made for five twenty one hundred.

    Been loving the 52100 steel on my newly acquired Marko. The low reactivity is amazing....
     
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  20. Sep 24, 2019 #140

    labor of love

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    I enjoy 52100. I think it’s really great for kitchen work. I also say fifty two one hundred.
     
  21. Sep 24, 2019 #141

    suntravel

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    Made from Uddeholm in Sweden with cleaner composition its called UHB20C15

    Swedish steel means only any kind of steel made in Sweden :)

    Shirogami may sounds cooler or more traditional, but ist simply an industrial made steel from Hitachi. Industrial steel making has a way longer tradition in europe and this way of steel making was brought to japan from europe ;)

    Regards

    Uwe
     
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  22. Sep 24, 2019 #142

    MarkC

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    Recommend some knives to try with this steel? Not seeing it much other than from small custom houses.
     
  23. Sep 24, 2019 #143

    stringer

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    Shi.Han
     
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  24. Sep 24, 2019 #144

    labor of love

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    Shihan, Marko or Kippington.
     
  25. Sep 24, 2019 #145

    parbaked

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    Kramer Zwilling if you don't like small custom houses: https://www.zwilling.com/us/zwilling/cutlery/kramer-euroline-carbon/
    It is a great steel that is readily available to small makers. If you decide to go that way, you have many options...
    I have knives by Shihan and Tony LaSeur...both excellent.
     
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  26. Sep 24, 2019 #146

    aboynamedsuita

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    The ZK 52100 can be improved a lot with a good regrind. I had the handle replaced and the blade reground/convexed/polished. I am kind of surprised how good it is now for a “factory” knife

    View attachment 61634
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  27. Sep 24, 2019 #147

    bahamaroot

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    Love my Marko 52100, one of my favorite knives. Can't wait to get a hold of one of his workhorses.
     
  28. Sep 24, 2019 #148

    M1k3

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    Five, two, one, double zero. That's just how it read to me.
     
  29. Sep 24, 2019 #149

    Nemo

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    I always called it fifty-two-one-hunderd.
     
  30. Sep 24, 2019 #150

    Xenif

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    Goman-nisen-hyaku-ko obviously, and now sounds totally super cool
     
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