Are any of the new "social" brands of knives decent quality?

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Tristor said:
I looked at her website, her product, and watched a video series that Quickbooks did with her. Seems like she managed to really understand and capture the essence of the affluent Brooklyn hipster and make a product which people want, even if it's not an objectively good tool. She's pretty up front herself about the idea that her knives are selling a piece of art that captures an idea of simpler times and rustic enjoyment, more so than the end result itself. There's definitely a market for that as a lot of affluent young people in major urban centers have some level of self-awareness of how disconnected from reality they are in their daily life, and they wish to adopt the kitsch of hard-scrabble but wholesome rural environs. It's the same reason why people who live in the heart of major cities in Texas (expensive and urban) still decorate their homes like it's going to be featured on the cover of Southern Living, even though they aren't rural ranch homes with strong roots of Americana.

Finding a product/market fit is about more than just creating something which is technically brilliant, it's also about understanding that people buy through their emotions. Even here, even myself, I bought the knives I bought partly because I wanted quality tools, but partly because the tools I already had didn't evoke the sensation and emotional feeling I wanted in the kitchen while cooking as cooking has grown to be a more important part of my daily life. There's a desire in all of us, especially if we cook, especially as we become more disconnected from where our food comes from, to have a feeling of authenticity in our lives. Artisan crafts which are also useful can help to lend us that feeling of authenticity, even if a more utilitarian and soullessly made corporate product could do the job just as well.

There's a deep and abiding insecurity within all of us about the moral quality of the world we exist in and whether we're truly doing better just by finding new ways to increase the speed at which we exploit natural resources and each other. There's a reason that hipsters have also lead the way in the urban gardening, urban chicken, and urban farming movements. There's a connection which is undeniable between humanity and the things which sustain our life, food, water, sunlight, air.
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As much as hipster culture annoys me—I do recognize the important contributions it makes to the knife community. Pardon my over-simplification—'hipster' culture is generally quite affluent, and has resulted in an audience hungry to buy unique, artisans/craftspeople-made products, from handmade charcuterie to handmade knives—I'm all for affluent people spending money on artisan made products.

It's just a matter of time before we see some of the traditional Japanese knife makers take advantage of Kickstarter. I'm slowly seeing some Japanese makers become more involved with IG, both Takada and Jiro are quite active.
 
One funny thing about CM's knives I just noticed is that the finish on the blade road is also.... rustic. There are still grind marks, and also sandpaper scratches in all different directions. I assume this was a choice? I guess her other artistic choices are so bizarre to me that it very well may be...

http://www.chelseamillerknives.com/shop-kitchen-knives/chef-knife-1
 
ian said:
One funny thing about CM's knives I just noticed is that the finish on the blade road is also.... rustic. There are still grind marks, and also sandpaper scratches in all different directions. I assume this was a choice? I guess her other artistic choices are so bizarre to me that it very well may be...

http://www.chelseamillerknives.com/shop-kitchen-knives/chef-knife-1
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Yes, very rough and rustic—but my TF denka also has some very rough and wonky areas. Not the type of knife I'd ever imagine having a place in a serious kitchen—but that's not her clientele. I can see how her knives appeal to collectors of artisan made objects—fun conversation pieces used in a home kitchen. Main selling hook is authorship, a knife made by Chelsea Miller. Which I understand, in that I often value knowing the person who made my knife—digging when there's a real engagement, seeing process shots of the knife being made.

Remarkably, Chelsea Miller knives are at the same price point as my Jiro and TF.
 
DitmasPork said:
Yes, very rough and rustic—but my TF denka also has some very rough and wonky areas. Not the type of knife I'd ever imagine having a place in a serious kitchen—but that's not her clientele. I can see how her knives appeal to collectors of artisan made objects—fun conversation pieces used in a home kitchen. Main selling hook is authorship, a knife made by Chelsea Miller. Which I understand, in that I often value knowing the person who made my knife—digging when there's a real engagement, seeing process shots of the knife being made.
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Yea, it's just that TF has performance going for it, so you can say "oh, they didn't concentrate so much on appearance, just on making a great tool". Her knives don't seem to be made to be tools, so I immediately think there'd be a lot of thought and care put into the f&f, since that is basically all there is. But I guess `rustic’ is a particular look, and maybe she thinks that a mirror polished blade road would look weird up against the cheese grater. Or maybe she is operating at a level way above us, and every individual scratch mark on the blade road is put there with great meaning and purpose.
 
ian said:
Yea, it's just that TF has performance going for it, so you can say "oh, they didn't concentrate so much on appearance, just on making a great tool". Her knives don't seem to be made to be tools, so I immediately think there'd be a lot of thought and care put into the f&f, since that is basically all there is. But I guess `rustic’ is a particular look, and maybe she thinks that a mirror polished blade road would look weird up against the cheese grater. Or maybe she is operating at a level way above us, and every individual scratch mark on the blade road is put there with great meaning and purpose.
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Yeah, with TF denka I dig the roughness and wonkiness on a knife that kicks-ass in the kitchen—performance high on my priorities for a knife! Guess what I was trying to convey was that I wouldn't be surprised is many of Chelsea Miller's collectors don't really use her knives much in the kitchen—which is fine, I know Kato owner's that don't use them.

You ever seen the Philippe Starck "Juicy Salif"? Object of desire for many, won pretty much every design award in existence—but try using it to juice lemons/oranges, they really suck. Look cool as hell, but valued more for its aesthetics and innovative design—same with Miller's knives in that they're more sculptural objects than practical tools.
 
workmanship doesn't appear to be very high with these imo.
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I think it is on purpose. I believe it is designed to fit an ideal or image that she and her clients have regarding a rustic handcrafted knife. I think the problem is that the ideal is nonsensical outside of the artistic realm. I don't see how this could be construed as anything other than art that looks and probably (minimally) functions as a tool.
 
DitmasPork said:
There’s absolutely nothing inherently wrong with the business model of crowd funding a knife project; or using social media marketing savvy for audience building, with an aim to sell—it’s not in itself an indicator of poor quality knives. KeMaDi is an example of a company selling good knives direct, that relies mainly on IG and word of mouth for audience building. Kickstarter can be a wonderful platform for ambitious individuals to get their projects funded—it’s sad that some here don’t see the value of it, stuck in antiquated pre-2009 marketing thinking, times have changed, important for any knife maker to keep up, which many do. For individual craftsman, who might not be able to secure a business loan to get started—Kickstarter offers a great egalitarian path. True that many of the current Kickstarter knives aren’t my cup of tea—but I’m hopeful more quality knives come through the Kickstarter ranks. A good number of great knives In my collection were brought to my attention through IG, by individual makers or vendors. The platforms utilized by ‘social brands’ are just tools.
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Are the Kemadi knives any good? Russian but unknown right? Are they handmade?
 
ian said:
The serrated spine could be useful. Make it a little more dramatic and you have a gyuto and a breadknife in one.
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Can you imagine what it would do to a knife block as that rasp drags when inserted? Probably need a rubber lined magnet strip, or better yet, frame it and hang it in the kitchen.
 
Twigg said:
Can you imagine what it would do to a knife block as that rasp drags when inserted? Probably need a rubber lined magnet strip, or better yet, frame it and hang it in the kitchen.
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Does it come with a friction fit saya?
 
dumb question: How would a pinch grip feel with a CM knife?
 
RDalman said:
Are the Kemadi knives any good? Russian but unknown right? Are they handmade?
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Yes, handmade, I've seen process shots of mine from a rough piece of metal to final knife. I don't know the names of the Russian blacksmiths—it's perhaps a similar business model to a lot of Japanese companies where they'd utilize several talented makers to produce for a specific brand. Several KKF members have gotten their hands on KeMaDis, they could probably speak more about characteristics of the knife in use. The one I had was very nicely made, great f&f—bulat steel core clad in reclaimed Russian railroad tracks, black hornbeam and reindeer handle. It's a collaborative project—Russian blacksmith, handle by Graydon, final sharpening and QC by Kasumi Kev, in addition to a couple of others involved—an ambitious project working with a number of steels rare outside of Russia, and custom designing some handsome profiles and finish options. My knife was beautiful, no complaints, Kev gave me OOTB prob the sharpest I've received—but I sold it before really using it, because it came in at the same time as a bunch of other knives, and I realized I had too many 225 mid-weight gyutos, so moved it one to someone who'd use it.
 
DitmasPork said:
I find her knives unpleasant to look at. However, kudos to her for her success, being smart with marketing, finding her audience of willing buyers—thus allowing her to make a living as a knife maker (not an easy task)! True there're probably many 'better' makers out there that have achieved far less financial success—but making/creating a knife is only a part of the equation, the maker needs to have good business sensibilities.
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surely shes not the actual knife maker? just a lady who poses in nice clothes with clean hands at an anvil. or perhaps this has been discussed, if so, my bad.

i mean as tools, the blade shapes make no sense.
 
Matt Zilliox said:
surely shes not the actual knife maker? just a lady who poses in nice clothes with clean hands at an anvil. or perhaps this has been discussed, if so, my bad.

i mean as tools, the blade shapes make no sense.
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I'm sure she makes the knives, why in the world would you doubt that??? I have never questioned if Bryan, Robin, Joe or Marko actually makes their knives—I just trust that they do.

Doesn't matter if they aren't the most well designed tools—that's not the entire point of her knives. (see earlier comments I've made)

They're essentially art pieces, that can also be used as tools. She has her fan base.

CM has also benefited from collaborating with a good photographer.
 
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tomsch said:
I can see the work of art approach but $800? Good that she has a fan base so you have to give her credit for carving out that market.
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Pricing is subjective for buyers. $800 is the right price for a CM chef knives—it would be the wrong price if they didn't sell. She's not producing "bang-for-buck" knives.

For some, $800 is nothing. I had a customer come in who whipped out a Centurion card, didn't even blink at dropping a few grand. Some people are fine spending $30 a pound for a ribeye steak—I'm more inclined to buy "choice grade" on sale from the supermarket meat aisle.
 
RDalman said:
Are the Kemadi knives any good? Russian but unknown right? Are they handmade?
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As brief as my experience is limited; yes.

Full disclosure, I’ve gotten to borrow two different prototypes from @preizzo . The first one was a 195 ~gyuto with a bulat core clad in wrought iron. Spectacular to look at (banding galore) and took the most dramatic patina, becoming broodingly dark from the edge on in. A quite nimble knife overall. The second one is a 240 gyuto in bulat steel only. Relatively heavy/forward balance, with a profile a bit similar to one of Jonas’ knives. This one has the best grind I’ve gotten to try. Very impressive combination of gliding through produce and food release. I’m guessing a convex grind, helped by weight to make cuts feel easy.

Take all of that with a generous helping of salt though, given my limited experience.
 
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