Are honyakis generally chippy?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by inferno, Apr 24, 2019.

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  1. Apr 24, 2019 #1

    inferno

    inferno

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    Just wanted to know what experience people have with commonly available honyakis, both japanese and others.

    Most of them are finished at higher hrc than a regular mono. But I know that for example 1095 has a torsional toughness peak at 165-170deg C when tempering and this usually ends up as 65hrc or so. And according to people that have used such blades they are not chippy/brittle.

    So I wonder if we are seeing some kind of similar effect here with honyakis or if they infact are chippy and brittle?

    gwKXfiP.jpg

    same with o1.

    o1_torsional2.jpg
     
  2. Apr 24, 2019 #2

    chinacats

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    One's I've owned and used were not the least bit chippy...even when new.
     
  3. Apr 24, 2019 #3

    SilverSwarfer

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    Nor mine. I have had no more “chippiness” with honyaki blades than with clad or mono. I’d guess this is a function of the craftsman adapting to optimize performance, given solid understanding of the material properties.
     
  4. Apr 24, 2019 #4

    Customfan

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    My experience is they are not chippy, just less forgiving for technique faux-pas like torquing....
     
  5. Apr 24, 2019 #5

    Chicagohawkie

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    I have never experienced a chippy Honyaki, but I do focus a bit more on technique when when using them.
     
  6. Apr 24, 2019 #6

    Barmoley

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    My experience with Kippington 1095 honyaki is it is not chippy, but I don't know how hard it is, maybe Jules can give us an approximate hardness. Xerxes Primus was not chippy either but it is SC125 at 63HRC so arguably not as hard as honyaki in general.

    Then again I had Tilman 1.2442 at 65HRC mono and it was not chippy as well as Kamon 1.2519 mono which is supposed to be around 65 HRC and that one is not chippy either. All this makes me think that either I am not abusing my knives enough, that correctly heat treated simple steels at high hardness are tough enough for kitchen use, that some of the hardness figures are approximations, that I am not sharpening my knives thin enough or a combination of all of the above. I really haven't seen the chipping I expected from any of these.
     
  7. Apr 24, 2019 #7

    labor of love

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    I’ve used 1095 Honyakis pretty extensively, not chippy. I was even quite rough with it sometimes.
     
  8. Apr 24, 2019 #8

    valgard

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    Not chippy the ones I have tried
     
  9. Apr 24, 2019 #9

    Interapid101

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    WRT the graphs in the OP, I think that Larrin has commented in the past regarding torsional toughness testing being unreliable. FWIW.
     
  10. Apr 24, 2019 #10

    bryan03

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    do you have the #1st picture in better resolution ?
     
  11. Apr 24, 2019 #11

    panda

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    Chippiness says more about the user in my experience.
     
  12. Apr 24, 2019 #12

    inferno

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    I dont unfortunately.

    Searched for hours.

    you're probably not gonna find it either.

    but you can still get all relevant info out of it if you know how these charts are usually done.
     
  13. Apr 24, 2019 #13

    Anton

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    Generally speaking and IMO:
    if you are chipping honyaki's you are chipping just about everything else in the same hardness range. Consider a micro bevel at the expense of maximum sharpness to solve somewhat.

    Lastly, don't buy a honyaki if you have not honed in your cutting style and sharpening skills. Unless you just want to say you have a honyaki knife
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  14. Apr 24, 2019 #14

    Keith Sinclair

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    Used a Takagi Honyaki as a heavy blade at work. With a thick grind certainly not your average Honyaki. No chipping issues. These days best blade for cutting up cardboard boxes for recycle bin. Razor sharp with weight behind it sails through cardboard no effort.:D

    Still prefer beefy Japanese and Chinese carbon steel any day as beater blades over some crappy stainless.
     
  15. Apr 24, 2019 #15

    inferno

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    i just want a honyaki man because i know its the sh1t. its the best so i want it.
     
  16. Apr 24, 2019 #16

    Corradobrit1

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    Thats about 99% of us then....
     
  17. Apr 24, 2019 #17

    HRC_64

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    The steel definitely gets more brittle at higher HRC ratings, and with Honyaki you are more likely to get 64-65+ than a standard knife, so yes they as a class of knives are likely to be more brittle. That doens't mean they have to be 'chippy' but they are more delicate, and likely to demand greater care when handling.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  18. Apr 25, 2019 #18

    Larrin

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    That’s true, I don’t like torsion toughness and it isn’t used anymore.
     
  19. Apr 27, 2019 #19

    inferno

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    But would you say it still has some relevance? i mean they measured some stuff there. they didn't pull those figures out of their asses. As to how this relates to actual in use of a knife performance i dont know. But personally i think it has to matter a bit at least. its one data point.

    I want to to ask you larrin or your dad if you guys have done some tests on really high hrc simple carbons steels (such as honyaki hardness). I guess you have , and also quite a lot of them. Have you noticed any difference in use of 65hrc simple carbons vs like 62 or so? was it a big difference in chip resistance/edge holding and so on. I'm guessing the edge would get corroded away before it actually wears away with this family of steels in a home enviroment. no matter the hrc.
     
  20. Apr 27, 2019 #20

    Larrin

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    No the torsion toughness test doesn't correlate with reality. Carpenter themselves did edge impact tests and found it didn't correlate with torsion toughness, and they later switched to unnotched izod and charpy testing.
     

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