Ashi Ginga W#2, Hiroshi Ashi W#2, and any other comp. W#1 or W#2?

[MikeO]

Hi all,
I did some forum searching on the Ashi brand/name differences, but I didn't seem to find the answer I was looking for. I'm sorry if this is redundant and I didn't dig deep enough.

I have read a lot of praise about Ashi knives and recently stumbled across a 210MM Gyuto by Hiroshi Ashi for $170.

Upon digging up more information on whether this was the right Ashi; finding Ashi Hamono, Ashi Ginga, Hiroshi Ashi, and I think some other Ashi - I also found an Ashi Ginga W#2 240mm for $290.

Basically I am looking to understand the difference in these knives, if all three are by the same maker? From what I am reading they're all in Sakai, and Ashi Ginga comes from Ashi Hamono. Is Ashi Hamono run by Hiroshi Ashi?

Also any feedback on whether either of these options seem like a good purchase, or if you have any other recommendations in the $100-$250-ish price range for W#2 (or even W#1 if anyone makes a good option at that price point?) that I should consider.

Mostly I am just looking for a relatively inexpensive laser in W#2/W#1. Haven't owned a laser or a full carbon and want to give both a go in one knife. Both of the options I have found seem to have extremely thin blades.

Photos attached of both knives referenced above.

Thank you for any and all information!

 

[xxxclx]

AFAIK, Hiroshi Ashi runs the Ashi Hamono company that has a line of knife called Ashi Ginga.

Ginga White 2 knifes are nice and thin, and not that reactive, judging from my experience with a White 2 petty.

If you're interested in them check out District Cutlery in Union Market, they have some Ginga in White 2 at very reasonable prices. (I got my Ginga 150mm petty at $90, albeit without a saya)

 

[MikeO]

AFAIK, Hiroshi Ashi runs the Ashi Hamono company that has a line of knife called Ashi Ginga.

Ginga White 2 knifes are nice and thin, and not that reactive, judging from my experience with a White 2 petty.

If you're interested in them check out District Cutlery in Union Market, they have some Ginga in White 2 at very reasonable prices. (I got my Ginga 150mm petty at $90, albeit without a saya)

Ok, thanks for confirmation on the maker. District is actually where I found the 210mm. I may go and see it after work to get a better feel.

How is the food release on your Ginga? I don't really know the difference between the Ginga and the standard Ashi line. They both appear to be stamped W#2. Maybe a slightly different heat treatment?

 

[xxxclx]

Ok, thanks for confirmation on the maker. District is actually where I found the 210mm. I may go and see it after work to get a better feel.

How is the food release on your Ginga? I don't really know the difference between the Ginga and the standard Ashi line. They both appear to be stamped W#2. Maybe a slightly different heat treatment?

I only have the Ginga petty and Chinese cleaver. I haven't tried their gyuto in depth but I did like how they feel in hand. The petty is pretty short at the heel so the food release is ok. The chinese cleaver is a huge slab of steel that does about as well as one could expect for a huge flat slab of steel, i.e., not great.

 

[parbaked]

I don't really know the difference between the Ginga and the standard Ashi line. They both appear to be stamped W#2. Maybe a slightly different heat treatment?

Jon explains the difference when the Ginga line first came out.
I believe Ashi treats all the White #2 knives to 61-62 HRc, so might not be different heat treatment anymore...

 

[MikeO]

@parbaked @xxxclx Awesome, thanks for the feedback gents.

I'll keep searching around through other threads for info.

Does anyone have any other recommendations to consider for a good starter all carbon 'laser' in this price range?

Maybe the price point is too low for such a thing?

 

[parbaked]

Ashi make great knives.
They also do everything from handles to sayas in-house, which is not always the case in Sakai.
I can't think of anything better in the price range.

 

[xxxclx]

@parbaked @xxxclx Awesome, thanks for the feedback gents.

I'll keep searching around through other threads for info.

Does anyone have any other recommendations to consider for a good starter all carbon 'laser' in this price range?

Maybe the price point is too low for such a thing?

I’d say email Jon at JKI and ask about the Ikazuchi series. They are also known to be great laser at the price.

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...uchi-210mm-stainless-clad-blue-super-wa-gyuto

 

[MikeO]

@parbaked @xxxclx Thanks for all of the input gents. I ended up picking up the 210mm Hiroshi Ashi from District Cutlery the other night. The blade height is quite a bit shorter than I'm used to, it almost feels like a 210mm petty rather than a Gytuo, but it is super thin and very sharp.

Also thanks for the rec on the Ikazuchi, it looks like a great knife but I didn't want a stainless clad for this specific knife. Though it seems that the Ashi has the same treatment as the Ginga petty you mentioned which makes it less reactive. I have cooked with it the last 3 evenigns and am barely starting to see a patina form. BUT so far it is generally a pleasure to use outside of adjusting to the height.

 

[xxxclx]

@parbaked @xxxclx Thanks for all of the input gents. I ended up picking up the 210mm Hiroshi Ashi from District Cutlery the other night. The blade height is quite a bit shorter than I'm used to, it almost feels like a 210mm petty rather than a Gytuo, but it is super thin and very sharp.

Also thanks for the rec on the Ikazuchi, it looks like a great knife but I didn't want a stainless clad for this specific knife. Though it seems that the Ashi has the same treatment as the Ginga petty you mentioned which makes it less reactive. I have cooked with it the last 3 evenigns and am barely starting to see a patina form. BUT so far it is generally a pleasure to use outside of adjusting to the height.

glad to hear that! I’ve been eyeing the extra height Ginga white 2 240mm on CKC for a while... would’ve bought it in an instant if it was stainless. But that might be in your wheelhouse

 

[adam92]

How's your ashi ginga gyuto food release? I only have ginga petty 210, would limw to get gyuto in the future as well.

 

[MikeO]

How's your ashi ginga gyuto food release? I only have ginga petty 210, would limw to get gyuto in the future as well.

I don't technically have the Ginga, but from what I can see in the photos it is virtually the same knife, probably with a bit less height on my standard Hiroshi Ashi.

Food release is better than I was expecting given the grind and uniform finished face of the blade. Really good for onions, solid on chicken, not good on cucumbers or carrots at all. Mushrooms was decent middle ground I guess. Ginger/garlic just as bad as any other knife I have. Haha, not sure if that helps.

I do think that the thinness of the blade does help with some foods because it just slices through so easily. It definitely has better release than say my Wustie, classic. And they have the similar uniform flat satin blade finish.

 

[MikeO]

glad to hear that! I’ve been eyeing the extra height Ginga white 2 240mm on CKC for a while... would’ve bought it in an instant if it was stainless. But that might be in your wheelhouse

Mmm, thanks for the rec. I'll keep that on the backburner for future purchase considerations. I definitely can see myself getting more lasers.

I am cutting myself off until July on anymore knife purchases, I just finalized my order for a Denka 240mm Gyuto and 150mm Petty. Going to be a long 6 months avoiding temptation.

 

[slickmamba]

@parbaked @xxxclx Thanks for all of the input gents. I ended up picking up the 210mm Hiroshi Ashi

I don't technically have the Ginga, but from what I can see in the photos it is virtually the same knife, probably with a bit less height on my standard Hiroshi Ashi.

what is a hiroshi ashi? Is it not the same as the standard ginga?

Do you have measurements/pics?

 

[adam92]

what is a hiroshi ashi? Is it not the same as the standard ginga?

Do you have measurements/pics?

Hiroshi ashi is the maker of ginga.

 

[slickmamba]

Hiroshi ashi is the maker of ginga.

I'm aware, but OP keeps mentioning it like its a different knife

 

[MikeO]

what is a hiroshi ashi? Is it not the same as the standard ginga?

Do you have measurements/pics?

So Hiroshi Ashi is the current head of the Ashi family and also the master smith who is now running Ashi Hamono.

It looks to me (this is based on some fairly limited reading on websites and Ashi Hamono's own website) that they're using the same White #2 steel likely with the same heat treatment on the Ginga line as with the more standard Ashi Line. They certainly look the same.

From Bernal's website: "Ashi Hamono was established in 1948 in Sakai City Japan; a major center of traditional knife making. Ashi makes knives utilizing a one piece of steel (rather than forge laminated 2/3 layer blade), called zenkou construction. Ashi’s Ginga line is famous for it’s thinness and precision, utilizing top quality carbon and stainless steels. These knives have an excellent fit and finish, from their grinding to heat treatment and hafting."

From what I understand about the Ginga line is that it was created specifically for the western market on JNS'?? (not sure if that is the right original store) distribution to satisfy some more typically western wants/needs. I think I have seen it on a few other websites though, so not sure what the deal is on that.

But at any rate, I think the knife I have and the Ginga line are pretty much the same, but the Ginga might be a bit taller and has a more rounded spine, maybe some other F&F differences to satisfy the western market.

Their price point seems to be a little bit higher, but you may also get a matching Saya with purchase of the Ginga, not sure. Bot those are in the $230-$250 range w/ Saya. I got this without Saya for $169.

Mine is a 210MM Gyuto. True measurements:
Blade length - heel to tip - 212.75mm
Height @ Hell - 44.45mm
Weight - 159G

 

[MikeO]

I'm aware, but OP keeps mentioning it like its a different knife

This was my original question in the original post. I don't know if they're actually the same or not. But mine doesn't have any rounding on the spine and the slightest rounding on the choil, but no easing on the edges.

Looking at the Ginga 210mm stainless, it has the same heel height @ CKC Ashi Ginga Stainless Western Gyuto 210mm

When I picked this up at District Cutlery I also asked if they had any Ginga's on hand and they said no. So I do assume that this is a different line just named after the owner. But then again, Tyler who was working is not their main knife guy and explained to me it is a second job for him to being a working cook.

Please feel free to shed some light for me!

 

[xxxclx]

This was my original question in the original post. I don't know if they're actually the same or not. But mine doesn't have any rounding on the spine and the slightest rounding on the choil, but no easing on the edges.

Looking at the Ginga 210mm stainless, it has the same heel height @ CKC Ashi Ginga Stainless Western Gyuto 210mm

When I picked this up at District Cutlery I also asked if they had any Ginga's on hand and they said no. So I do assume that this is a different line just named after the owner. But then again, Tyler who was working is not their main knife guy and explained to me it is a second job for him to being a working cook.

Please feel free to shed some light for me!

That’s a Ginga. District Cutlery just label them as Ashi on the shelve and the boxes

 

[MikeO]

That’s a Ginga. District Cutlery just label them as Ashi on the shelve and the boxes

Haha! Well, jokes on me. Thanks for clearing that up. Is the Carbon steel really that much cheaper than the SS?

 

[xxxclx]

Haha! Well, jokes on me. Thanks for clearing that up. Is the Carbon steel really that much cheaper than the SS?

I think the stainless and the carbon are priced roughly on the same level at other retailers. Maybe the one I got was an older stock and has the old price (they also had a Ginga 120mm carbon petty that’s like $70 Or $80, compared to about $130 elsewhere). The other reason I can think of is that mine didn’t come with a saya, but I’ll happily take a $80 discount in exchange.

How much did your knife cost and did it come with a saya?

 

[MikeO]

I think the stainless and the carbon are priced roughly on the same level at other retailers. Maybe the one I got was an older stock and has the old price (they also had a Ginga 120mm carbon petty that’s like $70 Or $80, compared to about $130 elsewhere). The other reason I can think of is that mine didn’t come with a saya, but I’ll happily take a $80 discount in exchange.

How much did your knife cost and did it come with a saya?

No Saya, $169 - full carbon W#2.