In general I don’t think mods are reviewing every post unless it is reported, given the current rules. I don’t see why adding new rules would change that. Not saying we need to add rules though.
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WTS ATTENTION: PayPal Friends and Family - beware
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Sometimes I wish we could have a feature where KKF would just read a thread aloud to you while you sharpen knives or cook or whatever. Ideally, some algorithm would try to guess what different members sound like. This thread would be a good candidate!
It would be a good idea to have a few stickies showing an appropriate way to best post something for sale especially knifes and stones, and to help buyers understand what they should be looking for and shouldn’t be looking for with regard to that particular item
It would set a standard and the enforcement would be up to the community instead of relying on the mods for everything
We don’t need some absolute God like power on a forum to stoke down with a lighting bolt, what we need is for people to act like mature intelligent adults that want to do good business with one another
If somebody new to the hobby or even somebody old to the hobby who simply makes a mistake and is upset due to that error, we can always ask them; “Did you refer to the step by step standard?”, and if they did not then the fault is with themselves as the responsibility of following that standard is up to those individuals and holding others to that standard as well
It would set a standard and the enforcement would be up to the community instead of relying on the mods for everything
We don’t need some absolute God like power on a forum to stoke down with a lighting bolt, what we need is for people to act like mature intelligent adults that want to do good business with one another
If somebody new to the hobby or even somebody old to the hobby who simply makes a mistake and is upset due to that error, we can always ask them; “Did you refer to the step by step standard?”, and if they did not then the fault is with themselves as the responsibility of following that standard is up to those individuals and holding others to that standard as well
It's only a standard if it is measured and enforced. Otherwise is just a nicety. I think @daveb is advocating for more niceties.
When will you be submitting your offerings for sticky consideration?
FWIW, pretty much all the BST threads I've looked at, and I tend to look at them all as it helps me get educated on knives, seem like they are posted by and engaged in by mature intelligent adults that want to do business together.
@Angie, maybe a sticky on turning on 2 step verification will assist too. In my opinion, it should be on by default.
Also, FYI, Chrome has a built in function to check the quality of your saved passwords. It will tell you if they are weak, re-used or even if they've been compromised.
Also, FYI, Chrome has a built in function to check the quality of your saved passwords. It will tell you if they are weak, re-used or even if they've been compromised.
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i found this set of knives at a local garage sale. I don’t know much about them , but I think they look pretty nice and the points are very pointy. I paid alot for them but my girlfriend doesn’t like the squiggly lines and thinks the handles are boring so I’ve decided to sell them and buy some Shun . To be honest they are a bit dull so I can scrub them with a Brillo pad and get them nice and shiny if you’d like . First $2500 by Friends and Family and they’re yours! Postage is an extra $15 . Thanks! Fake drsmp
I will buy this.
I have a hand full of posts on here showing that, but I would be more than happy to put something even better together 
Yes, that’s my exact point and contrary to the point you made earlier. We don’t need a mod baby sitting anything or anyone and a standard doesn’t need a mod to be held
Anything else msg me
Yes, that’s my exact point and contrary to the point you made earlier. We don’t need a mod baby sitting anything or anyone and a standard doesn’t need a mod to be held
Anything else msg me
i'm not trusting anyone who I haven't dealt with before that insists on friends & family. that is a major red flag. I don't care about tax inconvenience that's on you as the seller..
when I am the seller, I would never ask to be sent f&f, even amongst friends. they just do it on their own accord because there is no need for the buffer.
when I am the seller, I would never ask to be sent f&f, even amongst friends. they just do it on their own accord because there is no need for the buffer.
Yea, it’s better if it’s buyer initiated. However, if it weren’t for the paypal policy to the contrary, I’d definitely support asking the buyer to pay the paypal fees, which is a different thing.
As far as the concerns about reported income. I think most knives lose value. And some make money, but a collection of various makers will often lose value as a whole.
If the IRS is going to attach income; then the cost of the knife that was used to generate the income is important and theoretically deductible.
I am not an accountant but a basis for determining capital gains is customary in all other market sales.
If the IRS is going to attach income; then the cost of the knife that was used to generate the income is important and theoretically deductible.
I am not an accountant but a basis for determining capital gains is customary in all other market sales.
That’s what my wife said.
DitmasPork
Senior Member
After buying a bunch of knives from BST over the years, from members I know and don’t know, I believe in the following:
• BST system works fine, no need to change anything. Except for mods maybe being more vigilant removing inappropriate comments.
• Value PP protection as a buyer.
• No prob with transactions being reported to the IRS from PP—because it is income. No prob with fee to seller—I deal with that everyday at my biz.
• I won’t do F&F with anyone I’ve not at least had a beer with.
• Against complicating the buying process with extra steps or safeguards. My typical PM to buyer usually starts like “Hey, I’ll take that. What’s your PP?” I keep it simple.
• Scammers are incredibly rare here.
• BST system works fine, no need to change anything. Except for mods maybe being more vigilant removing inappropriate comments.
• Value PP protection as a buyer.
• No prob with transactions being reported to the IRS from PP—because it is income. No prob with fee to seller—I deal with that everyday at my biz.
• I won’t do F&F with anyone I’ve not at least had a beer with.
• Against complicating the buying process with extra steps or safeguards. My typical PM to buyer usually starts like “Hey, I’ll take that. What’s your PP?” I keep it simple.
• Scammers are incredibly rare here.
Not 'theoretically' -- it IS. You get taxed on the net gain. Conversely, you may have a net loss, but I'm not sure if you can get reduced taxes due to that loss.
brooksie967
No more Ashi
F&f is also the only way to sell items to the EU when a prospective buyer asks the seller to lower the declared value to avoid VAT leaving you unable to insure the item.
Having a PayPal merch-only policy greatly favors the buyer unless the seller is a business.
As such, a standard return/refund policy should be added as a forum sticky and should be referenced in case of disputes.
To sell as merch - I recommend the following:
1) A clear return and refund policy needs to be included in the agreement. I favor a KKF policy on this, but you can use mine as a reference. You can view it here - Refund policy
2) Take numerous photos of the blade before shipping
3) Photograph the knife box in the shipping box before closing
4) Do not agree to lower customs value for overseas shipping or ship as gift. If the buyer insists, then do not sell or agree to have the difference sent as F&F. Using the hybrid approach puts a level of trust on both parties.
Without the policy, the buyer can return the knife any time in the next six months and you will have no options but to accept the return.
As such, a standard return/refund policy should be added as a forum sticky and should be referenced in case of disputes.
To sell as merch - I recommend the following:
1) A clear return and refund policy needs to be included in the agreement. I favor a KKF policy on this, but you can use mine as a reference. You can view it here - Refund policy
2) Take numerous photos of the blade before shipping
3) Photograph the knife box in the shipping box before closing
4) Do not agree to lower customs value for overseas shipping or ship as gift. If the buyer insists, then do not sell or agree to have the difference sent as F&F. Using the hybrid approach puts a level of trust on both parties.
Without the policy, the buyer can return the knife any time in the next six months and you will have no options but to accept the return.
I suggest adding something like this to the rules. If not, people may consider using it in their bst post.
The import thing is the seller needs to add verbiage for protection. As someone later commented, it could be as simple as ‘All sales final’
Refund and Return Policy
All returns must be started within 14 days of the date of delivery
All returned items must be in the original condition and in the complete original packing in order to be accepted and credited.
If there are signs of misuse, or if there is other post-purchase damage on the product such as rust, scratching, or honing, items are not accepted for returns.
* Returns are accepted on the purchase price of items, within 14 days of the delivery date. Refunds will be be applied to the original method of payment
* Shipping costs and transaction fees are not refundable. If free shipping was used, the original shipping costs will be deducted from the refund value
* Knives cannot have been used in any capacity
* Unless the item is blatantly misrepresented, return shipping is at the buyer's expense. Please use a trackable shipping service and consider purchasing shipping insurance and Signature Confirmation for returns.
* Buyers have the option to insure/require a signature for their packages, therefore the seller is not responsible for replacing lost, stolen, or damaged products during shipment caused by the courier.
* Items shipped overseas will have the selling price listed as the customs value and will not be sent as gifts.
* Items must be as described.
* Items listed as new and unused must not show signs of use or damage.
* Items list as used must describe all signs of use or damage.
The import thing is the seller needs to add verbiage for protection. As someone later commented, it could be as simple as ‘All sales final’
Refund and Return Policy
All returns must be started within 14 days of the date of delivery
All returned items must be in the original condition and in the complete original packing in order to be accepted and credited.
If there are signs of misuse, or if there is other post-purchase damage on the product such as rust, scratching, or honing, items are not accepted for returns.
* Returns are accepted on the purchase price of items, within 14 days of the delivery date. Refunds will be be applied to the original method of payment
* Shipping costs and transaction fees are not refundable. If free shipping was used, the original shipping costs will be deducted from the refund value
* Knives cannot have been used in any capacity
* Unless the item is blatantly misrepresented, return shipping is at the buyer's expense. Please use a trackable shipping service and consider purchasing shipping insurance and Signature Confirmation for returns.
* Buyers have the option to insure/require a signature for their packages, therefore the seller is not responsible for replacing lost, stolen, or damaged products during shipment caused by the courier.
* Items shipped overseas will have the selling price listed as the customs value and will not be sent as gifts.
* Items must be as described.
* Items listed as new and unused must not show signs of use or damage.
* Items list as used must describe all signs of use or damage.
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DitmasPork
Senior Member
I alway bought from BST with the understanding that ‘All Sales Are Final, No Returns,’ …unless knife got totally f***ed in transit.
With your biz, what’re valid reasons for a knife being returned?
Who handles disputes? Kkf isn’t selling the knife.
DitmasPork
Senior Member
Ah, that's enlightening—I'd no idea that were the case. Some Euro friends of mine get screwed by VAT.
Personally, I think KKF should let people buy and sell as they wish, just stay out of it. As it is, KKF requires PP merch, which puts all of the risk on the seller.
The important thing is to have a clear return policy outlined in the sale to balance the risks. If you want to say ‘All sales final’, then clearly outline it, don’t assume it’s true. Unless there is a clear return policy the buyer can ship the knife back, demand a refund and PayPal will most likely rule in the buyer’s favor.
The likelihood of the buyer being corrupt is just as likely as the seller being corrupt.
DitmasPork
Senior Member
Cheers! Good points.
It balances out, as many have lower income taxes.
Don't think of it as getting screwed though -- it helped fund free college. Spreads the costs out over a lifetime.
Annnnnnnnnndddddd... Politics. 
Yeah, not touching that one.Annnnnnnnnndddddd... Politics.
I suspect this one is destined for closure.
DitmasPork
Senior Member
Yeah, I’ve just shoved my bag affixed with political buttons under the sofa for this thread.
Unfortunately, having "All sales final" or other return policy verbiage doesn't preclude PayPal from siding with the buyer and forcing the seller to refund. If you refuse to take the item back the buyer gets to still get a refund and keep the item. Great idea to have a refund, return policy, but don't expect PayPal to care. What has worked is when the buyer sends back the item broken or in a different shape than when it left the seller. In such cases both buyer and seller could get refunds from paypal even though the seller still eats shipping costs. It is basically up to paypal, sometimes it feels like it is up to an individual agent dealing with your particular case and their understanding of paypal rules.
